114 replies to this topic

[B0oN]

WolvesX, on 25 June 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

Normaly, I would buy that in an instant...

but the balance is so ****** up.

---

Hard choise.

Mate, exactly my feelings, although I still gravitate towards getting Overlord package because it is such a gift-horse all in all considered and I missed out on Founders because at that time MW:LL was my go-to Mech-warfare-drug

[Kyynele]

Balsover, on 25 June 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:

Really? At this point, they are asking for another 80$ for a package? Stop giving them money! As long as people keep paying for their crap, instead of content, they have zero incentive to produce the content.

It just doesn't work like that.

You suggest that "stop giving them money" -> game evolves to something that you like more.
While the reality is "stop giving them money" -> game dies.

Also, maybe I just lack imagination, but I can't instantly figure out how they could monetize game balance or game modes or maps or other such features. Perhaps you could consider that by selling mechs (which are an easy and fair thing to sell) they get money to work on the stuff that is harder to monetize directly, but enhances the game. Like game balance, game modes, maps and other such features.

[BlackBeltJones]

Kyynele, on 25 June 2013 - 03:40 PM, said:

It just doesn't work like that.

You suggest that "stop giving them money" -> game evolves to something that you like more.
While the reality is "stop giving them money" -> game dies.

Also, maybe I just lack imagination, but I can't instantly figure out how they could monetize game balance or game modes or maps or other such features. Perhaps you could consider that by selling mechs (which are an easy and fair thing to sell) they get money to work on the stuff that is harder to monetize directly, but enhances the game. Like game balance, game modes, maps and other such features.

Its about not giving them money until they open an honest dialogue with their supporters and paying customers. When we, the people with money say "this is nice but we want balance and fixes" and PGI remains silent they no longer have a reasonable right to expect our funding, appreciation, or support.
Certainly they are not obligated to listen, just as I am not obligated to pay them - seems fine to me but it will hurt them more.

Edited by BlackBeltJones, 25 June 2013 - 03:46 PM.

[Victor Morson]

GKnightBC, on 25 June 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

Seriously, people, for a FTP game to survive, it needs support in the form of cold, hard cash. I like the game and, as of now, I've spent $$$ to see it continue. If you think this game has bugs, you should check out 90% of the other F2P games out there! They are doing well, and I will keep supporting them. Keep up the good work, PGI et al.

If they would finally come down and address OUR balance concerns and host a community chat speaking candidly with us, and maybe strike some lines out to people who understand what's going on and try to take that into account, I would gladly endorse throwing money at them.

But if they continue to exist in a bubble where they think everything is fine because it works internally, we have a problem. If come next year I own 4 new 'mechs all fitted with Gauss & PPC, that might be enough to break even my will.

EDIT: I still endorse buffing other weapons, not nerfing the PPC, at least not drastically.

Edited by Victor Morson, 25 June 2013 - 04:16 PM.

[Rashhaverak]

I have never, not for one minute, regretted buying my founder's pack. I love my founder's mechs, and I play them constantly. My catapult is my favorite, my jenner a close number two and my atlas number three. I love the paint jobs, I love the contours, and I really love the c-bill bonus. The founder variants are absolutely competitive. I've played this game every weekend solid since I got into closed beta, and I see no reason to quit just when the real game is starting to come out. Sure, some mistakes have been made; sure, seismic sucks; sure, a mech bay should cost $1 vice $1.25; sure, PPC alpha builds are broken; sure, 8-man is full of asinine mech builds. Despite those shortcomings, this game rocks, and keeps getting better with each patch. Those things that are currently impacting the game's success will eventually be amended. There's no way I'm not buying Overlord. Not just for the value (which the OP correctly described), but in support of what is now and will continue to be potentially a great game.

Edited by Rashhaverak, 25 June 2013 - 04:40 PM.

[Ragnar Darkmane]

Rashhaverak, on 25 June 2013 - 04:38 PM, said:

I see no reason to quit just when the real game is starting to come out. Sure, some mistakes have been made; sure, seismic sucks; sure, a mech bay should cost $1 vice $1.25; sure, PPC alpha builds are broken; sure, 8-man is full of asinine mech builds. Despite those shortcomings, this game rocks, and keeps getting better with each patch. Those things that are currently impacting the game's success will eventually be amended. There's no way I'm not buying Overlord Talon. Not just for the value (which the OP correctly described), but in support of what is now and will continue to be potentially a great game.

This. I support this very much even though I didn't participate in the founder program. As a Battle Tech and Armored Core fan this game is simply much more fun than say World of Tanks. The game is not perfect but solid (and the devs ARE doing something, I have seen far worse devs when it comes to balancing and patches [Relic Entertainment *Cough* Space Marine *Cough*]) and it slightly gets better all the time (even though their communication to the players could be improved).
And hey, it might take a while but once Community Warfare is done things will surely start rolling. And seriously, the MWO community is (even with all the moaning in the forum) still the most mature, civilized and intelligent player base I have ever seen in a F2P (which usually have to deal with a HUGE crowd of kids, teenagers or a**holes that play the game 'cause it's free) and ranks amongst the best communities I have encountered in 13 years of gaming (and you can fluff smack talk with 80% of the players because they know the BT lore, that's great) .

Edited by Ragnar Darkmane, 26 June 2013 - 02:48 AM.

[TheSteelRhino]

So voting with your money is certainly your perogative as a customer. However, lets think about this a second. Everyone has an opinion and I think it's safe to say most of us have different ideas on how we would have done things if we were designing the game

But we didn't. Pgi resurrected the title, fought the legal battles, hired the devs, etc. Many of us were closed and open Beta testers and provided input. Maybe they thought your input was good or maybe not.

It is a good game even though imperfect. I judge a game being good by whether or not it is fun. So if you like Mechwarrior/Battletech and want this to survive you may want to think about your rhetoric, and ask yourself if you could do all of this. You should probably accept that it will never be perfect. (If it is perfect for you I think it is safe to say someone else will not). I personally believe the game has come a long way. Balance is MUCH better. And there are already solutions proposed and under development for excess boating.

Will I buy one of the packages.....probably. Want all of those mechs but the locust. Guess it depends on how much free cash I have floating around. Do I have gripes about certain things, yes. But then again what is perfect? Time to be realistic here.

If you are a wait and see type, then wait and see. You'll miss out on some premium time, but whatever. They have to make money to survive. It's not a gaming charity.

Edited by Rhinehardt Ritter, 25 June 2013 - 05:23 PM.

[Gamgee]

Not getting another cent until they get some balancing done. There is time for fun, and time for work. This is time for them to get off their fatasses and get to work. They've had fun milking our dollars from us for the past few months while balance spirals out of control more and more with each patch.

There are features not done that I payed for as a founder. Not a another ******* penny, and I would hope others feel the same. I hate to be this harsh and an *******, but they made a **** ton of money. It's time for them to provide the finished game as envisioned with the money we gave them. I'm still waiting and becoming less and less sure their first promises will ever be kept.

Who in their right mind except the most extreme of {Noble MechWarriors} would pay into this? There is nothing but evidence mounting to suggest these mechs will be a pile of ****, the variants will suck, and only one or two will be good. Good for PPC boating and then the current **** balance just inflates more. Now on top of balancing factors power creep is starting to affect the game.

Hell no. I came back just to say that. If they can impress me with their next two patches and get the balance problems under check then sure, but I'm not holding my breath.

[BlackBeltJones]

Rhinehardt Ritter, on 25 June 2013 - 05:12 PM, said:

So voting with your money is certainly your perogative as a customer. However, lets think about this a second. Everyone has an opinion and I think it's safe to say most of us have different ideas on how we would have done things if we were designing the game

But we didn't. Pgi resurrected the title, fought the legal battles, hired the devs, etc. Many of us were closed and open Beta testers and provided input. Maybe they thought your input was good or maybe not.

It is a good game even though imperfect. I judge a game being good by whether or not it is fun. So if you like Mechwarrior/Battletech and want this to survive you may want to think about your rhetoric, and ask yourself if you could do all of this. You should probably accept that it will never be perfect. (If it is perfect for you I think it is safe to say someone else will not). I personally believe the game has come a long way. Balance is MUCH better. And there are already solutions proposed and under development for excess boating.

Will I buy one of the packages.....probably. Want all of those mechs but the locust. Guess it depends on how much free cash I have floating around. Do I have gripes about certain things, yes. But then again what is perfect? Time to be realistic here.

If you are a wait and see type, then wait and see. You'll miss out on some premium time, but whatever. They have to make money to survive. It's not a gaming charity.

I must say that I believe balance was much better in CB than it is now - just putting that out there.
Now imagine you want a Spanish restaurant in your neighborhood, then imagine one opens up. Now you really want a Spanish restaurant because you love Spanish food but let us imagine this new Spanish restaurant is terrible, their food and service are just not up to your expectations. What do you do? Do you continue to go there and give them money knowing you will not be satisfied? Do you go expecting it to be different each time? Or do you stop going and hope that the lack of business is an indicator to them that changes need to be made, internal changes not customer changes. I mean you really want a Spanish restaurant and if this one closes then you are left with nothing right? I would argue that a bad Spanish restaurant and no Spanish restaurant in your neighborhood produce the same result. Sure it would be great if the business cared and listened to feedback and made changes that encouraged the customers to spend but that is not the customers job. As a customer we can offer feedback and money and the business is responsible for making it easy for you to do both. If MWO sinks then I will be very sad but I will not lament the loss of a great game, I will be sad to lose the promise of something that never actually came to be.

[Gamgee]

Except I helped found the Spanish restaurant with many others. Bad Spanish restaurant takes your money and leaves you with ecoli. The owners leave the country with millions and never pay a dime for all the crap they did to their consumers.

I'll take none, thanks. That's it though, there is a point where "promises" of what a good game could be are not enough. it has to start ******* delivering or I'm going to get mad. I don't tolerate this kind of scum bag steve behavior. It's getting to the point where if a friend asks me about this game I am telling them hell no. They want me to stop driving business away? Then start delivering on all of the promises and a good balanced game please.

Almost every game ever "had potential", it's the number one most common thing said before a game is about to hit the dirt and crash hard. Potential is never enough if not delivered, and if after a supremely long time you fail to deliver than I have to infer your going to continue to fail and are not worth investing. If you really **** up you might get me to start a mini one man crusade against you. Do what damage I can to your future profits.

They have only 6 patches to go before this game is "officially" launched, and it's not ready.

They have failed me for the last time.

Edited by Gamgee, 25 June 2013 - 05:55 PM.

[venomman2]

Did it ever occure to *anybody* that this could have been in the works for a while, and they were just waiting on a final green light to finish/release it? Because I can tell you first hand that releasing a product to the world market requires a lot of effort from lots of different groups of people. And those groups all need to have their proverbiall ducks in a row or the **** hits the fan at launch.

I have no trouble at all believing the "Can't discuss unseen/reseen" from the devs was due to NDA, possible due to legal discussions with the rights holders. These mechs coule have been completed *months* ago when PGI stated that multiple mech designs were finished and awaiting an official release date.

Pursing the reseen designs was something the *community* asked for. And in an environment with more than enough other mech designs to fill those gaps, they chose to go through the legal jungle to get what we asked for. Of course money was going to be a factor. This company has to make money, they have to pay the overtime for the guy working 12+ hours a day to get that fix in before patch deadline, they have to pay for those dedicated servers you connect to for every game you play, they even have to pay for the electricity to power that computer with the magic spreadsheets that house all the weapon stats that apparently any one of us could balance in 5 minutes.

But above all else, this was done for us. And if the sour responses I've been reading are indictive of the player majority, PGI deserves a better fanbase.

And we should be ashamed of ourselves.

[BlackBeltJones]

I doubt anyone thinks this was a spur of the moment Sale - clearly these things are planned. What the 'sour' is all about is the fact that many would prefer the Devs to communicate about the current problems and the realistic reason for them and likely roadmap to resolution. Having this sale as the only Dev communication in sometime gives the appearance of disinterest.

[BlackBeltJones]

venomman2, on 25 June 2013 - 06:34 PM, said:

But above all else, this was done for us. And if the sour responses I've been reading are indictive of the player majority, PGI deserves a better fanbase.

And we should be ashamed of ourselves.

Man this was the funniest thing I've heard all day.

[ApolloKaras]

venomman2, on 25 June 2013 - 06:34 PM, said:

Did it ever occure to *anybody* that this could have been in the works for a while, and they were just waiting on a final green light to finish/release it? Because I can tell you first hand that releasing a product to the world market requires a lot of effort from lots of different groups of people. And those groups all need to have their proverbiall ducks in a row or the **** hits the fan at launch.

I have no trouble at all believing the "Can't discuss unseen/reseen" from the devs was due to NDA, possible due to legal discussions with the rights holders. These mechs coule have been completed *months* ago when PGI stated that multiple mech designs were finished and awaiting an official release date.

Pursing the reseen designs was something the *community* asked for. And in an environment with more than enough other mech designs to fill those gaps, they chose to go through the legal jungle to get what we asked for. Of course money was going to be a factor. This company has to make money, they have to pay the overtime for the guy working 12+ hours a day to get that fix in before patch deadline, they have to pay for those dedicated servers you connect to for every game you play, they even have to pay for the electricity to power that computer with the magic spreadsheets that house all the weapon stats that apparently any one of us could balance in 5 minutes.

But above all else, this was done for us. And if the sour responses I've been reading are indictive of the player majority, PGI deserves a better fanbase.

And we should be ashamed of ourselves.

So just continue giving money no matter what the development progress is?

[venomman2]

Look, I'd love to know what's going on behing the scenes too but that's the thing, it's behind the scenes. And with the laundry list of projects PGI is working on, I would hope the dev team has their collective faces glued to their monitors rather than spending an hour or two writing a posts about it.

To Saxie,
If you don't believe the product has value to you, you generally don't buy it. There's no difference here except that the "product" has additional value in an immaterial fashion. The value comes from the fact that we have a new Mechwarrior game after almost a decade without, with fantastic graphics, and a development team that is willing to communicate and accept feedback on their game design, in a limited manner of course.

And I will personally support this game until the servers are shut down and the last developer cleans out his/her desk because I have faith that each one of the people working on this game cares as much about the IP as each one of us. And I believe that one day, this game will become a *great* game and that right now we are all climbing that mountain.

[Gamgee]

venomman2, on 25 June 2013 - 06:34 PM, said:

Did it ever occure to *anybody* that this could have been in the works for a while, and they were just waiting on a final green light to finish/release it? Because I can tell you first hand that releasing a product to the world market requires a lot of effort from lots of different groups of people. And those groups all need to have their proverbiall ducks in a row or the **** hits the fan at launch.

I have no trouble at all believing the "Can't discuss unseen/reseen" from the devs was due to NDA, possible due to legal discussions with the rights holders. These mechs coule have been completed *months* ago when PGI stated that multiple mech designs were finished and awaiting an official release date.

Pursing the reseen designs was something the *community* asked for. And in an environment with more than enough other mech designs to fill those gaps, they chose to go through the legal jungle to get what we asked for. Of course money was going to be a factor. This company has to make money, they have to pay the overtime for the guy working 12+ hours a day to get that fix in before patch deadline, they have to pay for those dedicated servers you connect to for every game you play, they even have to pay for the electricity to power that computer with the magic spreadsheets that house all the weapon stats that apparently any one of us could balance in 5 minutes.

But above all else, this was done for us. And if the sour responses I've been reading are indictive of the player majority, PGI deserves a better fanbase.

And we should be ashamed of ourselves.

The company acquired these rights in 2009 if what people is saying is true. There was never any big leap to acquire them. And if this was planned so far in advance why aren't all of these mechs done being made? I'm calling their bluff.

[BlackBeltJones]

I will admit it is easy to sound sour but I would believe many here, like me, are frustrated in part because we want to spend money but feel it is not a sound investment. I truly want this game to thrive and live for a long time and I appreciate it will take money to allow that future to unfold. I can only do so much as a customer and when I do not get a sense of commitment from the development team I will question the viability of my investment. I do not expect to be catered to but there are things I expect, the primary expectation is communication and that is currently absent. In the absence of communication about development the potential investors can only keep the faith so long. I don't need everything to be perfect but I expect to know why things aren't correct and what the plan for correction is - with this information I can hold on to the hope without any faith required.
Added: All that and I will still admit the pricing on the current deal is good and a step in the right direction.

Edited by BlackBeltJones, 25 June 2013 - 07:21 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Gamgee, on 25 June 2013 - 07:03 PM, said:

The company acquired these rights in 2009 if what people is saying is true. There was never any big leap to acquire them. And if this was planned so far in advance why aren't all of these mechs done being made? I'm calling their bluff.

If you'd like to know the story of how MW: Reboot eventually became MW:O, then I would suggest reading Dev Blog 0, which tells the story of what happened over the years.

[BlackBeltJones]

and I don't think PGI wants a better fanbase, I think they want a paying fanbase.

[El Bandito]

Good deal for the Overlord package but I don't play with any mechs below 65 tons. Hence the Locust and the Shadow Hawk are waste for me.