135 replies to this topic

[Inkarnus]

ryoma, on 25 June 2013 - 05:16 PM, said:

Founders pack we got to choose. Limiting choice can only lose them money.

They changed it this time because most founders changed there picked Mechs over and over .....
cant really blame PGI for there move now !

[John MatriX82]

Josef Nader, on 28 June 2013 - 02:14 AM, said:

The $80 package is a steal. You get 12 mechs that would normally cost you a fortune for a fraction of the price, PLUS tons of premium time, PLUS some really nifty bonuses for the upcoming community warfare PLUS 12 mechbay slots. I fully understand why they put the Battlemaster at the $80 tier. Considering it's almost $40 for a single assault mech, paying $80 for three assaults, PLUS 3 heavies, PLUS 3 mediums, PLUS 3 lights, PLUS 12 mechbays to put them in, PLUS 120 days of premium time, PLUS portable bonuses for upcoming meta content is a bloody steal.

It's not. Because I can afford 80% of those things with Cbills. What if the standard variants suck and I don't find them to fit me besides exping the phoneix variant? After I've paid real money for those.. it's like buying a standard variant with MCs, no go for me.

I don't even want the Locust, nor the Thunderbolt at all; the latter even more since I saw the shape that with the actual absurd scaling choices they did for the QD, it's probably going to be even wider than an AWS. Nope I'm not getting that either. We're like 2 mechs over 4, and quite frankly, the chosen phoenix variant for the SH isn't impressive at all, 3 ballistics are going to be widely unused in there, albeit I scream for a 55 tonner and I'd gladly take it anyway along with the Battlemaster. I've already thrown at them 110$ until now.

I do really hope they'll add mid-tiers with the option to chose the mechs you want. I'd like to have them even without PT included, to make the actual tiers look better, but yet I'd like to pick 1 or 2 mechs from those offered, 30$ for 1, 50$ for 2, 70$ for three. Seeing this and other threads I'm not the only one with this idea. It's clear they want to gather the enthusiasts by pushing them to buy the overlord only, because any other pack is rather silly, especially the lowest ones.

Then consider also another nice thing: be sure that after the phoenix pack goes on, they'll start to release some kind of "faction hero mech" that allows you to get 35% cbills boost and 15% loyalty points boost, like they did with the Founders, that have 25% cbill boost vs the 30 of the heroes. Heroes that now by missing any loyalty bonus risk to become even less appealing.They'll do the same with the cockpit items, releasing some that allow you more loyalty points than those contained in the phoenix pack.

Plus, in the whole packs, besides the PT, there's no MC at all. Ok, you get many under the form of mechbays and free variants + heroloyalyzers mechs, but yet no MC offer, we'll have to wait for another black friday offer I guess.

[Josef Nader]

The simple fact of the matter is that if PGI lets us choose, the vast majority of people are going to grab the biggest, heaviest mech for the lowest possible price. $30 is -cheap- for a hero assault on their current price scaling. If they add in the other two normal variants, you're getting three $30-40 mechs for the price of one. Plus, adding MC to the package cuts harshly into their own paydays. Moreso than giving you mechs, as you can use MC to get lots of stuff you'll only buy once (like colors).

Furthermore, I would like to posit that not every variant needs to be super special spectacular amazing to be worth the price of entry. Do I expect the Locust or the Shadow Hawk to be particularly competitive? Nope. I'm pretty sure I'll be leaving those at home in serious 8 mans. Do I expect them to be fun as hell and provide interesting and unique ways to approach the game? Heck yes. It'll be a fun challenge (and insanely rewarding) to make the tiny Locust a force on the battlefield. It'll be tons of fun to pick opponents apart with the balanced loadout of the Shadow Hawk. Not everything has to be super powerful one-shot builds to be fun. Sure, you tend to lose to super powerful one-shot builds, but when you don't the game is so much more rewarding.

So sure, if you only want powerful, amazing mechs, skip the Pheonix mechs. They are all pretty much the same thing; balanced, strong builds for tabletop, where combined arms and a varied loadout is king. Lots of people are buying these because of the nostalgia factor. Others are buying these for the unique and interesting playstyles they offer. Very few are buying these because they're going to rock the meta and completely dominate on the battlefield.

Bringing this tangent back to where it started, PGI learned with Founders. By giving people the option to pay a small stipend and get the single mech out of the bunch they want, they end up short-changing themselves. By barring the best stuff at the top and combining it with tons and tons of candy, they can more effectively separate us from our money. If they give us the option to pick one of the bunch, almost all of us are going with that one. It makes perfect business sense, and I suspect that most of you griping about the lack of the ability to choose a single mech you want are going to throw down for the $80 pack sooner or later. Money in the bank for PGI.

In unrelated news, before you discount any of these mechs it's worth considering that there may be some restrictions on drops once community warfare is introduced, as well as the introduction of objectives beyond "kill all the robots". That Locust might not look super special right now, but when you're extremely limited on drop tonnage and the cost of the mechs you can bring, and you have to accomplish objectives that don't involve killing all the other players, you'll be seriously reconsidering laughing at the little guy.

[Mahws]

stjobe, on 28 June 2013 - 01:35 AM, said:

It's unreasonable because the question you're actually asking is "I don't want to spend $15,000 on a $25,000 car. Why can't you sell me that $25,000 car for $5-$8,000?". Any sane dealer would laugh in your face and show you the door.

The $80 they're asking for the Overlord package is roughly what you'd need to spend if you were to buy just
* A Hero assault 'mech
* Two regular assault 'mechs
* Three mechbays
* Three months of premium time

In effect, you're getting the other eight 'mechs and mechbays for free if you buy the Battlemaster. Or if you want, you get about half price on everything in that package compared with if you'd buy it separately.

Now you want to pay $20 for that. $20 for something they're asking $80 for, something with a $160 or so value. Can you still not see why it's unreasonable?

Where exactly did I say I wanted the $80 pack for $20?

I said I wanted a better $20-$40 pack, not the $80 pack for $20. Throw in the loyalty boost medals at a lower teir. Give us a $30 option to get the ShadowHawk without the Locust. Or a $50 pack for the ShadowHawk and the Thunder Bolt. Or a $25 pack that gives you just the phoenix mech of your choice.

The $80 tier is great value, but the $20 and $40 tiers are terrible. The $20 tier doesn't even offer you anything $20 of MC couldn't buy.

I understand the desire to push people to buy the $60 and $80 packs, but by offering nothing attractive at the entry level they're essentially throwing away any money from people unwilling to pay that much. The people currently buying the $80 pack would still buy the $80 pack if the $20 pack wasn't terrible.

Edited by Mahws, 28 June 2013 - 04:34 AM.

[John MatriX82]

I don't frankly care of the Locust or on any lightmech at all since I'm not a light pilot in my merc, I'm a medium pilot in the end when we go competitive (but I'm stuck into 4PPC stalker hell due to my ELO); once the drop limiters will kick in if we have to save some weight I'll bring my Cicadas, so weight factor won't be an issue for me anyway, as I said I'm happy with the BM, but also the SH might interest me since it's the only 55 tonner so far that would fit my class-specialization.

Selling everything in the highest tier is a remarkable marketing strategy, also the reseen mech choice is the same, like making the hero of an unreleased chassis available before the standar variants is, they did it with the HM, I'm pretty sure we'll see an overload of Dragon Slayers the next Tuesday.

What I'm saying is that as usual, letting us some kind of choice might help them into gathering even more money from those like me. An enthusiast will go with the overlord nevertheless, even with a 70$ option that allows you to pick up 3 mechs.

[Ghogiel]

ICEFANG13, on 27 June 2013 - 07:56 AM, said:

If PGI could actually balance the game with a small level of competency then this would be much less of a problem.

If assault hero mechs were the same price as light hero mechs then yeah the balance would be the main issue. But they aren't.

[Tibs]

i heard some were going in time add were can run faster love have a 200 k locust with masc )

[ICEFANG13]

Tibs, on 28 June 2013 - 05:26 AM, said:

i heard some were going in time add were can run faster love have a 200 k locust with masc )

If they leave the engine cap at 170, the Flea will go the exact same speed and currently looks to have a better hitbox, plus MASC is 100% known to be a part of it, MASC might just be limited to certain mechs.

[hammerreborn]

Oh look, OP is rambling again that he can't buy an assault 3 months early at the same cost as a light that is released day of.

Edited by hammerreborn, 28 June 2013 - 08:10 AM.

[ryoma]

Mahws, on 28 June 2013 - 04:29 AM, said:

Where exactly did I say I wanted the $80 pack for $20?

I said I wanted a better $20-$40 pack, not the $80 pack for $20. Throw in the loyalty boost medals at a lower teir. Give us a $30 option to get the ShadowHawk without the Locust. Or a $50 pack for the ShadowHawk and the Thunder Bolt. Or a $25 pack that gives you just the phoenix mech of your choice.

The $80 tier is great value, but the $20 and $40 tiers are terrible. The $20 tier doesn't even offer you anything $20 of MC couldn't buy.

I understand the desire to push people to buy the $60 and $80 packs, but by offering nothing attractive at the entry level they're essentially throwing away any money from people unwilling to pay that much. The people currently buying the $80 pack would still buy the $80 pack if the $20 pack wasn't terrible.

Mahws puts this very well.

There is no reason to pick up a 20-40 dollar pack because they are terrible and a waste of money. Considering many would refuse to spend more than 20 bucks on a F2P in a month all they're doing is alienating customers without giant wallets or who are smart spenders.

If the problem is the Assualt being sold for 20, then let the 20 pack only pick light/med and let the 40/60 pack only pick light/med/heavy.

Also, a lot of these toxic people who come in just to talk **** on us. You're a disgrace to your fellow pilots. We're trying to spend money on the game, but PGI doesn't want us to unless it's at least 80$ worth.

Edited by ryoma, 28 June 2013 - 01:48 PM.

[Kraven Kor]

hammerreborn, on 28 June 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

Oh look, OP is rambling again that he can't buy an assault 3 months early at the same cost as a light that is released day of.

So make only the current packages give you the head start.

If you pre-order only a single mech of choice package, you get them at normal release date, not Oct. 15th. Making plenty more incentive to buy the $80 pack.

So:

$20 - Current Locust package, get Locust on day 1 (as it is released first, yes?)
$30 - ShadowHawk only; you do not get it on Oct 15th but when it releases to general public
$40 - Current Locust + ShadowHawk package, you don't have to wait on ShadowHawk.
$40 - Thunderbolt only; you do not get it on Oct 15th but when it releases to general public
$50 - BattleMaster only; you do not get it on Oct 15th but when it releases to general public
$60 - Current Locust + ShadowHawk + Thunderbolt package; you get all on Oct 15th, no wait.
$80 - Current Overlord Package, all mechs on Oct 15th.

And then make the "single mech of choice" packages have comparable perks and benefits to the current $20 package.

Make EULA say "You can't swap mechs after purchase, period, for any reason. No refunds, all sales final, TYVM."

[ryoma]

Guess now we play the waiting game and the waiting game will end when the phoenix packs disappear.

Either A: I'll squeeze 20-40 dollars out for a pack that isn't a rip off
or B: I'll just buy stuff in a different game until PGI starts putting stuff I'd purchase MC for.

So far I did it for the YLW, mechbays, some paint, and a few times for premium time. I don't think I'll be buying premium time soon, so next time PGI gets money out of me it will likely be for a Hero mech variant of a chassis I enjoy.

So a hero Pult or Jenner.

[Riptor]

Josef Nader, on 28 June 2013 - 02:14 AM, said:

The $80 package is a steal. You get 12 mechs that would normally cost you a fortune for a fraction of the price, PLUS tons of premium time, PLUS some really nifty bonuses for the upcoming community warfare PLUS 12 mechbay slots. I fully understand why they put the Battlemaster at the $80 tier. Considering it's almost $40 for a single assault mech, paying $80 for three assaults, PLUS 3 heavies, PLUS 3 mediums, PLUS 3 lights, PLUS 12 mechbays to put them in, PLUS 120 days of premium time, PLUS portable bonuses for upcoming meta content is a bloody steal.

You can run commercials past me as much as you want it wont work. I dont want to pay for all the other mechs because i dont want them.

Thats the same stupidity that microsoft tries to sell with the xbox one(eighty)

"Sure we are 100 $/€ more expensive then sony.. but you get the kinect! Isnt that great?"

Hell no.. i dont want no stinking kinect, and i sure as hell dont want a locust or shadowhawk, and my interest in the thunderbolt is mild at best.

I would pay for the battlemaster but only for it alone because THAT is the product i am interested in.

But hey.. PGIs loss.. instead of 20 to 30 dollars they get 0 from me.

Im sure that this is smart business practice.. yes sir.


Oh and about the argument that if they didnt hide the battlemaster behind a paywall everyone will be running it on day 1:

Everyone was running "insert mech X" when mech X came out that day. Thats not an argument since it happens every damn time.

Fact is PGI is loosing money here.. lots of money, and they are unwilling to realize that.

Its called MICRO transaction for a reason! Not "pay the equivilant price of 2 PC games for virtual goods that you will never actually own"

Im not going to spend 80 dollar on something that will never ever be mine and can be taken away from me whenever the publisher decides to.

Edited by Riptor, 29 June 2013 - 07:45 AM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Josef Nader, on 28 June 2013 - 04:16 AM, said:

Bringing this tangent back to where it started, PGI learned with Founders. By giving people the option to pay a small stipend and get the single mech out of the bunch they want, they end up short-changing themselves. By barring the best stuff at the top and combining it with tons and tons of candy, they can more effectively separate us from our money. If they give us the option to pick one of the bunch, almost all of us are going with that one. It makes perfect business sense, and I suspect that most of you griping about the lack of the ability to choose a single mech you want are going to throw down for the $80 pack sooner or later. Money in the bank for PGI.

I have to disagree with you at this point. Everyone has a price point they reach where it becomes too pricey to purchase no matter if they want something or not. When, for example, PGI limits getting a Phoenix Battlemaster to those only willing to buy the highest tier, they also push many more people away that would have easily invested $20 to get just that one mech. If they could have sold ten $20 Battlemaster Packs for every one $80 Overlord pack, then they actually lose money.

Basically they are taking a gamble with High Price, Low volume verse Low Price, High volume.

Same thing happens with MC to be honest. I usually only really play MWO on the weekends so I was going to start purchasing 3 day premium subs.....until I realized that at 650 MC a pop, that it cost me 100 more MC per month to do that than just buy a months time. The net result is I decided NOT to run a premium sub and PGI loses money. However if it was more like 400 MC for 3 days, I would be buying every Friday. Therefore in my case, their decision to charge such a high price for a 3 day subcription costs them around $8 a month in reoccuring revenue.

Same principle applies to both the Phoenix and MC. In MCs case, make the monthly much cheaper than the 3 day and that gives incentive to people to go for the bigger package which HOPEFULLY turns $8 a month in revenue to $12 a month. In the Pheonix packages case, give people incentive to buy the Overload package and turn $20 into $80. Like me alot of people aren't going to do it though.

[Josef Nader]

From what I'm hearing from the community and the folks I know in-game, the Overlord package is selling like hotcakes. I guarentee you that wouldn't be the case if you could get the Battlemaster for $20. It certainly wasn't the case during Founders. I got the cheapest package that gave me that sexy, sexy Atlas and called it a day. Why would I spend money on mechs that interested me less? There's no incentive to. Now there is. Combine that with the fact that you get so much more for your money in this situation than you got with Founders (the only real difference is the MC), and this deal is simply phenominal. The best one PGI has ever offered.

[Khobai]

Quote

The $80 package is a steal.

Youre sidestepping the issue. We all know the $80 package is good. The problem is anyone who doesn't want to spend $80, can't buy a lesser value package, because theyre simply not worth it. Why even offer different tiers if every tier but the highest one is a complete ripoff?

Quote

I guarantee you that wouldn't be the case if you could get the Battlemaster for $20

I completely disagree. With Founders, the Atlas was offered at the $60 level. But most founders still bought the $120 founders anyway. Even if the Battlemaster was offered at $20, just as many people would still buy the $80 package. Because its a WAY better deal. But currently, all the other tiers are complete ripoffs, and theres no incentive at all to spend less than $80. That is fail marketing. And it is hurting PGI more by denying business from everyone who wants to conduct microtransactions in the $20-$40 range.

Edited by Khobai, 29 June 2013 - 02:53 PM.

[hammerreborn]

Kraven Kor, on 28 June 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:

So make only the current packages give you the head start.

If you pre-order only a single mech of choice package, you get them at normal release date, not Oct. 15th. Making plenty more incentive to buy the $80 pack.

So:

$20 - Current Locust package, get Locust on day 1 (as it is released first, yes?)
$30 - ShadowHawk only; you do not get it on Oct 15th but when it releases to general public
$40 - Current Locust + ShadowHawk package, you don't have to wait on ShadowHawk.
$40 - Thunderbolt only; you do not get it on Oct 15th but when it releases to general public
$50 - BattleMaster only; you do not get it on Oct 15th but when it releases to general public
$60 - Current Locust + ShadowHawk + Thunderbolt package; you get all on Oct 15th, no wait.
$80 - Current Overlord Package, all mechs on Oct 15th.

And then make the "single mech of choice" packages have comparable perks and benefits to the current $20 package.

Make EULA say "You can't swap mechs after purchase, period, for any reason. No refunds, all sales final, TYVM."

I'm okay with this, but that's a far cry from what OP is asking.

[hammerreborn]

Khobai, on 29 June 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:

Youre sidestepping the issue. We all know the $80 package is good. The problem is anyone who doesn't want to spend $80, can't buy a lesser value package, because theyre simply not worth it. Why even offer different tiers if every tier but the highest one is a complete ripoff?

All of the lesser ones are worth it. I'm only going to play for davion, so the 4 faction mediallions doesn't really give me anything. The only mech I'm interested in is the locust...so frankly getting the overlord was probably a bad plan. I mainly bought it for the dirt cheap premium time and mechbays, cause likely at the end of the day ill end up selling the off variants thunderbolts and battle masters and buying 4 more Jenners.

[Josef Nader]

The less than $80 packages are hardly bad in any sense of the word. So the Locust isn't going to completely wreck the meta and introduce a new reign of bug mech terror. It's still going to be a wicked fun mech to play and once the speed cap get's lifted it's going to leave the competition so far behind their heads will spin. The Shadow Hawk is also unlikely to rock the meta to it's core, but a super fast, jumpy 55 ton medium with a large laser, an AC10, and twin LRM 5s has the chance to be an insanely fun fast attack platform. The Thunderbolt is a damn truck. It has the same hardpoints as the Atlas D on a mech that is 35 tons lighter. I have no idea how anyone can think that's bad. The Battlemaster is also going to be freaking awesome, and totally worth the $80 package.

Long story short, for $20, you get a fun to play Phoenix mech, 2 standard variants so you can get your masteries, 30 days of premium time, and a badge. That's a pretty damn good deal. You all are just salty that the Locust isn't going to be this amazing butt-kicking mech. Boo hoo, deal with it.

For $40, you get a really fun to play light, a challenging but interesting medium, enough variants to grind all of them up, 30 days of premium time, a badge, and a cockpit medalion that lets you boost loyalty points -in any mech you put them in-. That is a -damn- good deal. It basically lets you put a small phoenix bonus on -any and all mechs in your garage-.

For $60, you get an awesome heavy, a challenging but interesting medium, a fun to play light, enough variants to grind them all up, 60 days of premium time, a badge, and 2 medalions that boost loyalty points, so you can afford to be lazy.

For $80, you get an awesome assault, an awesome heavy, a challenging but interesting medium, a fun to play light, enough variants to grind them all up, 120 days of premium time, a badge, and 4 medaliions so you can be super lazy.

Face it, you're getting a -fantastic- deal for the $20, $40, and $60 packages. You all are just mad that you don't get to pick and choose the bits you want out of the packages. That's just tough.

Edited by Josef Nader, 29 June 2013 - 03:14 PM.

[ICEFANG13]

I'm in high doubt the speed cap will ever get lifted. The Locust is bad, and it loses to a Spider that can go 208, the fastest mech in the game currently and with JJs.

And at the least, if MASC is allowed to the Locust and not the Spider, I don't think we'll see mechs going 360 for a long time. We've had so much trouble getting past 150.