11 replies to this topic

[WolvesX]

Hi there.

Since I'm tired of playing Gauss / PPC / AC20, I started playing WoT a bit.

In fact I reactivated my old beta account and found a lot of stuff added.

After playing it a few days now, something just jumps into my mind:

WoT is Battle of Attrition

Up to Tier5, you can oneshot guys, but then suddenly in Tier6 every tank on the battlefield got around 850HP+ (not the scouts ofc, be they are very fast or very small and hard to detect).

Also you got armor, that bounces shot and totaly negates all damage.

The guns however, do about 140 damage (average).

So, many shots bounce off + you can actually dodge shots with speed =

You live long, very long, it takes minutes to kill lets say a Tiger (Heavy) with a VK 36.01 (Medium).

--- --- ---

Scouts can scout, because they are hard to spot (good cover rating, small), can actually dodge shots with speed.

Heavys can tank, with there armor and HP, deal tons of damage - though they are very slow.

Mediums are manouverable and can deal LOTS of damage, perfect for flanking.

Arty is very vulnerable, but very good support (indirect fire).

You can only see enemys that you or a teammate can see, if they are behind a house, even if they are 10 meters away, you don't see them.

--- --- ---

The problem are the hitboxes in this game.

Every mech got 11 hitboxes, where his HP (armor) is disributed.

So its: HP / 11.

In WoT its: Just HP + armor (bounces).

Is this understandable?

How can we have a battle of attrition, if we got so few HP?

HP / 11 = wow.

Edited by WolvesX, 25 June 2013 - 04:42 PM.

[Lootee]

Duh. Weapons got convergence. Armor didn't get convergence.

Doesn't take a genius at math to see that when you change the probability of hitting a mech's torso 6 times in a row from 1:46656 to 1:1 that the results are going to be very screwed up.

Edited by PanchoTortilla, 25 June 2013 - 04:45 PM.

[Soy]

I'm gonna post a thread like, "PaRappa the Rapper vs MWO"

[blinkin]

WolvesX, on 25 June 2013 - 04:40 PM, said:

Hi there.

Since I'm tired of playing Gauss / PPC / AC20, I started playing WoT a bit.

In fact I reactivated my old beta account and found a lot of stuff added.

After playing it a few days now, something just jumps into my mind:

WoT is Battle of Attrition

Up to Tier5, you can oneshot guys, but then suddenly in Tier6 every tank on the battlefield got around 850HP+ (not the scouts ofc, be they are very fast or very small and hard to detect).

Also you got armor, that bounces shot and totaly negates all damage.

The guns however, do about 140 damage (average).

So, many shots bounce off + you can actually dodge shots with speed =

You live long, very long, it takes minutes to kill lets say a Tiger (Heavy) with a VK 36.01 (Medium).

--- --- ---

Scouts can scout, because they are hard to spot (good cover rating, small), can actually dodge shots with speed.

Heavys can tank, with there armor and HP, deal tons of damage - though they are very slow.

Mediums are manouverable and can deal LOTS of damage, perfect for flanking.

Arty is very vulnerable, but very good support (indirect fire).

You can only see enemys that you or a teammate can see, if they are behind a house, even if they are 10 meters away, you don't see them.

--- --- ---

The problem are the hitboxes in this game.

Every mech got 11 hitboxes, where his HP (armor) is disributed.

So its: HP / 11.

In WoT its: Just HP + armor (bounces).

Is this understandable?

How can we have a battle of attrition, if we got so few HP?

HP / 11 = wow.

yes total HP/11 except the hardest hitting weapon in this game generally won't even kill a light mech in one shot. one shot kills in WoT tend to be very common. also WoT tanks tend to have a much slower relative movement so moving to cover is much harder to do safely.

Soy, on 25 June 2013 - 04:47 PM, said:

I'm gonna post a thread like, "PaRappa the Rapper vs MWO"

Tetris vs. MWO

trolling aside world of tanks does have a lot in common with the gameplay of MWO. although i think the assessment the OP gave leaves out far too many other important gameplay differences.

[Signal27]

WolvesX, on 25 June 2013 - 04:40 PM, said:

you can actually dodge shots with speed

Also keep in mind that it's not just tank speed alone is how they are able to dodge shots, but also tanks in WoT have a form of convergence. In other words they need to hold still and can't move the turret around too quick otherwise the aiming circle goes huge and your shot may go flying far off from where you're acutally putting the crosshair.

[General Taskeen]

WoT's interesting, I play it. WoT is definitely arcade, with sprinkles of realism mixed in. I wish there was a more modern Tank Simulator on the market though. The only things that are sort of close are Heroes of Stalingrad and Battleground Europe.

The convergence thing that most people talk about for idea's in MWO is a little different though. In WoT your cannon can be aimed perfectly straight, but if you are moving the shell can go anywhere since the aim circle becomes huge. From what I understand people want to see something like DocBach's suggestion, where the weapon is going to hit no matter what where-ever the crosshair is, it just might wobble around a bit if heat or high-alpha striking.

Edited by General Taskeen, 25 June 2013 - 05:02 PM.

[Vaan]

Scout tank or Medium tank is good if he know the weak spots of individual tanks like where is the engine compartment or ammo compartment .. it can take down a heavy tank real quick..

[keith]

the crappy PGI hitboxes have been the problem since CB. only 1 mech has good hitboxes and that is the cent. if with all the pinpoint shots if there was decent hitboxes on all the mechs thing would live longer. instead almost ever mech is a walking ct, leading to current problem we have. PGI is herp a derping on their mech building.

[Adrian Steel]

keith, on 25 June 2013 - 05:50 PM, said:

the crappy PGI hitboxes have been the problem since CB. only 1 mech has good hitboxes and that is the cent. if with all the pinpoint shots if there was decent hitboxes on all the mechs thing would live longer. instead almost ever mech is a walking ct, leading to current problem we have. PGI is herp a derping on their mech building.

Pretty sure the hitboxes on the Cent are broken and/or smaller than the model itself...

[Chavette]

These games shouldn't even be compared. A mechwarrior game is a mechwarrior game, not a WoT-but-with-mechs-and-better game.

It should never be the objective of monkeying WoT, or outdoing it in some form. The focus should be building the best MW game possible.

[Artgathan]

WolvesX, on 25 June 2013 - 04:40 PM, said:

Spoiler

Hi there.

Since I'm tired of playing Gauss / PPC / AC20, I started playing WoT a bit.

In fact I reactivated my old beta account and found a lot of stuff added.

After playing it a few days now, something just jumps into my mind:

WoT is Battle of Attrition

Up to Tier5, you can oneshot guys, but then suddenly in Tier6 every tank on the battlefield got around 850HP+ (not the scouts ofc, be they are very fast or very small and hard to detect).

Also you got armor, that bounces shot and totaly negates all damage.

The guns however, do about 140 damage (average).

So, many shots bounce off + you can actually dodge shots with speed =

You live long, very long, it takes minutes to kill lets say a Tiger (Heavy) with a VK 36.01 (Medium).

--- --- ---

Scouts can scout, because they are hard to spot (good cover rating, small), can actually dodge shots with speed.

Heavys can tank, with there armor and HP, deal tons of damage - though they are very slow.

Mediums are manouverable and can deal LOTS of damage, perfect for flanking.

Arty is very vulnerable, but very good support (indirect fire).

You can only see enemys that you or a teammate can see, if they are behind a house, even if they are 10 meters away, you don't see them.

--- --- ---

The problem are the hitboxes in this game.

Every mech got 11 hitboxes, where his HP (armor) is disributed.

So its: HP / 11.

In WoT its: Just HP + armor (bounces).

Is this understandable?

How can we have a battle of attrition, if we got so few HP?

HP / 11 = wow.

Actually a mech's HP is more like

If XL ENGINE = 0

HP = ARMOR CT + INTERNAL CT

or

HP = ARMOR LL + ARMOR RL + INTERNAL LL + INTERNAL RL

or

HP = ARMOR HEAD + INTERNAL HEAD

Based on your analysis (I've never played WoT) though the key difference seems to be that units simply don't have the firepower to destroy one another in one shot at the higher tiers. The solution based on this would be to just reduce the damage values of all the weapons in MWO.

Adrian Steel, on 25 June 2013 - 06:29 PM, said:

Pretty sure the hitboxes on the Cent are broken and/or smaller than the model itself...

Centurion pilots (like myself) exploit one simple game-play nuance to give ourselves longevity: damage transfer.

The Centurion actually has fairly large hitboxes for a medium mech. But as a Cent pilot, first I make you shoot off my left arm (by only exposing my LA to you). Then I feed you my RA. Then I give you my RT. Now, when you shoot my RT, damage transfers to my CT, but only 50% of the damage transfers. So every time you're about to fire, I just rotated my RT to face you and absorb 50% of whatever you're throwing at me. (If you manage to hit the stump of the RA, damage gets reduced by 50%, transfered to the RT, where it gets reduced by 50% again, and then to the CT, dealing 25% of the original damage).

This is what gives the Centurion it's longevity. If I take an alpha to the face I'm down for the count: I just don't take them to the face.

EDIT: Also, notice how no one gets upset that WoT has a cone of fire system? That probably helps slow down the gameplay as well.

Edited by Artgathan, 25 June 2013 - 06:51 PM.

[Signal27]

Chavette, on 25 June 2013 - 06:37 PM, said:

These games shouldn't even be compared. A mechwarrior game is a mechwarrior game, not a WoT-but-with-mechs-and-better game.

It should never be the objective of monkeying WoT, or outdoing it in some form. The focus should be building the best MW game possible.

On one hand, you're right about MWO shouldn't try to ape WoT too much. On the other hand, WoT is probably the closest thing we can possibly compare to MWO, so that at the very least we can point out some general gaming concepts that work in one game that might or might not work in the other. Sure we could try to compare Hawken, but WoT is actually the closer game in terms of the pace at which matches go and the emphasis of learning rule minutiae. Granted we have previous iterations of MechWarrior to also compare to, but none of them were multiplayer-dedicated F2P games.

Edited by Signal27, 25 June 2013 - 07:21 PM.