48 replies to this topic

[Fred013]

Lyoncet, on 26 June 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

Really? Seems like 2 fewer energy points, possible XL viability, 360 gauge engine, jets, 5 more tons, and missile slots make it quite a bit different. Really the only similarity I see is each has 3 ballistics in the shoulder.

And it's not even the same shoulder.

[deranda]

Where does all this talk about the potential XL viability come from? If the torso split ian't completely counter-intuitive the shadow hawk will have a tiny ct and huge side torsos, just look at the artwork. Fupdup was even nice enough to visualize it.

I like this btw, we got enough walking center torsos by now, once in a while i like to drive a mech that doesn't make me feel like an ***** for liking standard engines :3

[TehSBGX]

Any news on the other variants? At 55, tons I'm gonna have rough time Figuring out how to make 3 balistic slots work, triple ac 2 is kind of a joke build. Even though it's not in time line, I'm hoping for something kinda like the 5D.

Edited by TehSBGX, 26 June 2013 - 03:07 PM.

[One Medic Army]

TehSBGX, on 26 June 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

Any news on the other variants? At 55, tons I'm gonna have rough time Figuring out how to make 3 balistic slots work, triple ac 2 is kind of a joke build. Even though it's not in time line, I'm hoping for something kinda like the 5D.

I'm hoping/guessing we'll be getting the 5M, which is a Tier-2 tech variant.
Endosteel, 275XL, DHS
UAC/5 LRM20, SSRM2, ML

I'm guessing that it'll probably look something like 2-3M, 1-2B, 2-3E

You could probably mock up the 5D with it (using a UAC/5 and 2 SSRM2s), and having both Lasers in the same arm.

My guess for third variant is the 2K, which is another Kurita retrofit (like K2 pult and 7K treb).
LRM5 in the RT, and PPC in the LT, and nothing else. At least it keeps the JJs.

Edited by One Medic Army, 26 June 2013 - 03:14 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

One Medic Army, on 26 June 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

Just posting up the image on the frontpage for your consumption.


Also here's a brightened version which is a little easier to see.


I'm stoked: finally a 5/8 55ton jump mech, I've wanted this for quite a while.
The hardpoints make me a little sad though:
H: 1M (2)
LT: 3B
RT: 2M (5)
RA: 1E

Looks like it'll be tough to use this thing well with an XL what with the big gun on the shoulder. It'll also be hard to use those 3 ballistic hardpoints.
The head missile is highly tube and crit limited, and the shoulder is probably going to be tube limited as well.
Then it only has 1 energy hardpoint, at least it's on an arm.
It's also worth noting that as soon as this thing is upgraded with Artemis, the only weapon that will fit in the Head slot is the SSRM2.

Here's some images off of Sarna of the TT Shadow Hawk art

Spoiler

2H


1R


7M


Unspecified

I would point out we don't know the tube count for the model. The Highlander varies. Also the Quickdraw ADDS a second Launcher when the second LT rack is installed. Likely will see similar. And when and if SRMs are returned to glory, packing 3 SRM4 ain't a bad thing......

[Gallowglas]

This is, without a doubt, one of the best designs yet. I loved the original. I love this even more.

[One Medic Army]

Bishop Steiner, on 26 June 2013 - 03:13 PM, said:

I would point out we don't know the tube count for the model. The Highlander varies. Also the Quickdraw ADDS a second Launcher when the second LT rack is installed. Likely will see similar. And when and if SRMs are returned to glory, packing 3 SRM4 ain't a bad thing......

I know, but I doubt the head will go up to 4 or 5 tubes.
I'm also betting the torso will end up at 6+4 or possibly 6+6, severely doubt it'll have the tubes for LRMs.

[TehSBGX]

One Medic Army, on 26 June 2013 - 03:10 PM, said:

I'm hoping/guessing we'll be getting the 5M, which is a Tier-2 tech variant.
Endosteel, 275XL, DHS
UAC/5 LRM20, SSRM2, ML

I'm guessing that it'll probably look something like 2-3M, 1-2B, 2-3E

You could probably mock up the 5D with it (using a UAC/5 and 2 SSRM2s), and having both Lasers in the same arm.

My guess for third variant is the 2K, which is another Kurita retrofit (like K2 pult and 7K treb).
LRM5 in the RT, and PPC in the LT, and nothing else. At least it keeps the JJs.

The 5m could definately work.

- Edit the 2Hb also looks good too.

Edited by TehSBGX, 26 June 2013 - 03:19 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

One Medic Army, on 26 June 2013 - 03:15 PM, said:

I know, but I doubt the head will go up to 4 or 5 tubes.
I'm also betting the torso will end up at 6+4 or possibly 6+6, severely doubt it'll have the tubes for LRMs.

Head is probably nerfed, Torso would not surprise me if at least some variants allowed 10 tubes, maybe 10+5 like on the QD. Which I make work just fine with LRMs.

[Glaive-]

I don't think the side torsos are as large as you guys say they are:



Of course there is some curving/transition between the front and side, and it will be possible to hit the sides of the mech, but keep in mind that the arms will be covering those up to a degree.

Edited by armyunit, 26 June 2013 - 03:21 PM.

[deranda]

armyunit, on 26 June 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

I don't think the side torsos are as large as you guys say they are:



Of course there is some curving/transition between the front and side, and it will be possible to hit the sides of the mech, but keep in mind that the arms will be covering those up to a degree.

I totally agree with you. The Ct is still very slim though which makes the side torsos large IN RELATION. At least nothing that cries for an XL engine.

[Angel of Annihilation]

One Medic Army, on 26 June 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

Just posting up the image on the frontpage for your consumption.


Also here's a brightened version which is a little easier to see.


I'm stoked: finally a 5/8 55ton jump mech, I've wanted this for quite a while.
The hardpoints make me a little sad though:
H: 1M (2)
LT: 3B
RT: 2M (5)
RA: 1E

Looks like it'll be tough to use this thing well with an XL what with the big gun on the shoulder. It'll also be hard to use those 3 ballistic hardpoints.
The head missile is highly tube and crit limited, and the shoulder is probably going to be tube limited as well.
Then it only has 1 energy hardpoint, at least it's on an arm.
It's also worth noting that as soon as this thing is upgraded with Artemis, the only weapon that will fit in the Head slot is the SSRM2.

Here's some images off of Sarna of the TT Shadow Hawk art

Spoiler

2H


1R


7M


Unspecified

Have to agree with you about the hardpoints. I was hugely disappointed when I saw there would be only one Energy Mount total as I really expected to see 2 Energy in the RA if for no other reason just to allow for versitality of build.

The problem with all those missile and ballastic slots it that both of those weapons systems are extremely heavy especially when factoring in ammo. Even with an XL and Endo your only going to have about 25 tons of weight to work with on the Shadow Hawk. A gauss will take up 18 tons of that with ammo. Leaving only 7 tons for the missiles, their ammo and heatsinks....oh and lets not forget the pitiful 1 energy slot. Honestly your going to be limited to a single AC/5 and/or MGs in the ballastic slots if you want to put a decent missile loadout or any heavy energy weapon in the right arm slot.

Anyway I have been racking my mind for a build that offered DPS that could compete with the existing 50-60 ton mechs in the game and so far have fell well short unless you wanted to significantly downgrade the engine rating.

[Tennex]

does it really matter? if history repeats itself. its not going to end up looking like the concept art.

armyunit, on 26 June 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

I don't think the side torsos are as large as you guys say they are:



Of course there is some curving/transition between the front and side, and it will be possible to hit the sides of the mech, but keep in mind that the arms will be covering those up to a degree.

there is no way side L/R torso will be that part adjacent to the arms. It has never been that part. The part adjacent to the arms has always been Front L/R torso.

Edited by Tennex, 26 June 2013 - 04:50 PM.

[1453 R]

This thing has more or less invalidated my purchase of a Quickdraw. I was willing to give the QKD a good chance against my jumping Trebuchets, but the Shadow Hawk is just...damn. I'll admit, I squee'd when I saw it in the project Phoenix lists.

That said, the actual hardpoint configuration on the Phoenix variant is kinda depressing. Triple ballistic slots do no real good whatsoever - One could make a case for dual AC/2 on this stinker but even that's pushing it - and the single energy makes for hard choices. I've never really been a big fan of large numbers of small-tube launchers in MWO, either. Used to be precisely the opposite in older MW games, but this one is pretty damn unfriendly to small LRM racks. Sucks, really...I'ma miss my peppershots on the Bushwacker when it finally turns up.

And it will turn up. YOU HEAR ME, PIRANHA?! O_O

Anyways. I'm anticipating running a stock-plus sort of configuration on my Shawk when it hits, actually - swap in a large laser on the right arm, keep the light autocannon on the shoulder (and ignore the extraneous ballistics), probably run a bank of Streak launchers for some extra close-quarters DPS where it counts. Stuff at least a 330XL in that sucker too, and damn the side torsos. One does not buy a Shadow Hawk and allow it to go slow. Hmm...GaussHawk (Goshawk? Yeah, I wish...) sounds interesting, but it's hard enough to pack a gauss rifle on my Flame, let alone on something like a Shadow Hawk.

Yeah...I see this as a skirmisher's toy more than a machine for the alphamonsters. The AC/5 is a workable weapon since the updates and deals a lot more damage than folks think if you go ignored for even just a moment or two, and strapping a bigger beam - or a PPC, if one dislikes big engines - onto the arm gives it a good counterpoint to the autocannon. Streaks are good, reliable DPS in the crunch. I think I can work with it. Really wish I'd gotten that second RA energy hardpoint, though...

[SgtMagor]

I finally get the SHawk.,

[venomman2]

Dat Shadow Hawk...

[General Taskeen]

The concept art looks a lot closer to the originals than most other mwo concept art, hence why I like it. The 3D model, on the other hand, is wait and see.

Edited by General Taskeen, 26 June 2013 - 06:16 PM.

[FupDup]

armyunit, on 26 June 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

I don't think the side torsos are as large as you guys say they are:



Of course there is some curving/transition between the front and side, and it will be possible to hit the sides of the mech, but keep in mind that the arms will be covering those up to a degree.

Shooting the red part (blue too, but that is smaller) will still count as frontal side torso, so yes they really are that big.

Edited by FupDup, 26 June 2013 - 06:20 PM.

[Sephlock]

What's with that second to last picture? Did he headbutt an Atlas?

(While jumpjetting .)

Fender bender?

[MeiSooHaityu]

TehSBGX, on 26 June 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

Any news on the other variants? At 55, tons I'm gonna have rough time Figuring out how to make 3 balistic slots work, triple ac 2 is kind of a joke build. Even though it's not in time line, I'm hoping for something kinda like the 5D.

It's a joke build, until it kills you . I know, a dual AC5 or UAC5 build is probably better, but when I get my hands on this mech, it's "Tripple Deuce" time. I run that setup in my Founder's Hunch. With 5 extra tons, it should be even better in this mech. BTW, with my Founder's mech running 3 AC2s and 3MLasers, I have a KDR of 1.02. Not going to set the world on fire, but for a PUG with that build, not too bad.