60 replies to this topic

[Corralis]

So now I guess we have 2 to choose from.

This thing

The Thrust Master T.16000M

Or This



The Logitech Force 3D Pro.

Both very nice sticks and not to complicated to use.

Ahh so Force Feedback isn't a good thing for Mech Games?



Back to this then

Thomas Hogarth, would you mind explaining to me what Hall Sensors are?

[Renan Ruivo]

I'm planning on getting the logitech Force 3D pro. Was planning before, because it hit the spot for my budgetary requirements and now because of all the good things i've been reading here.

[Corralis]

CompleteTanker, on 09 June 2012 - 09:36 AM, said:

I'm also looking at the ThrustMaster T-FLight Hotas, but I'd prefer separated joystick and throttle. Probably be a "Premium Feature" and out of this price range :-/

If you look at the Thrustmaster T-Flight Hotas X you can actually separate the stick and throttle, which seems quite good.

[Thomas Hogarth]

Corralis, on 09 June 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

Thomas Hogarth, would you mind explaining to me what Hall Sensors are?

Sure thing.

To really understand how Hall sensors are better, let's take a quick look at potentiometers. These read electrical difference, and are a contact system. Basically, as the sensor turns, there is more less(or more, depending on direction) resistance, and therefore the board knows how far it has turned. Since it's contact based, dust and debris can(and eventually will) get into the mechanism. This disrupts the flow of electricity inside the sensor, and causes the sensor to report erroneous resistance levels. This causes what is known as 'spiking'.

Hall sensors take a different approach. The sensor is magnetic and contactless. It measures a magnets location, and reports that. Hall sensors can report at much higher resolutions than pots, and of course are not bothered by a little dust. Ergo, more reliable, more accurate.

Edited by Thomas Hogarth, 09 June 2012 - 09:53 AM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I currently have a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro, and it's a replacement for my ancient Saitek ST290 Pro.

The Logitech is alright so far, except one of the buttons has failed already (the #2 button that's thumb-activated... but that's okay because I wind up accidentally pushing it too often, anyways). It's having problems with MW:4, or should I say, MW:4 is having problems with it... but that's not going to be an issue too much longer The joystick works well enough for the cheap-o it is, but if I had some more money I would upgrade to somethng with stronger springs and a smoother scroll - One problem I'm having with my 3D Pro is that I can't find a way to desensitize small movements. When I play MW:4 it seems like the smallest touch of the stick throws my aim way off to that side instead of just the small, gentle nudge I was looking for.

I'm not going the force-feedback route because I think mechanical vibrators cause structural weaknesses to develop over time... that might be a bogus concern, but I'm sticking to it.

[Corralis]

Renan Ruivo, on 09 June 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

I'm planning on getting the logitech Force 3D pro. Was planning before, because it hit the spot for my budgetary requirements and now because of all the good things i've been reading here.

Well I'm glad I'm not the only one getting some good info from this topic

Thomas Hogarth, on 09 June 2012 - 09:53 AM, said:

Sure thing.

To really understand how Hall sensors are better, let's take a quick look at potentiometers. These read electrical difference, and are a contact system. Basically, as the sensor turns, there is more less(or more, depending on direction) resistance, and therefore the board knows how far it has turned. Since it's contact based, dust and debris can(and eventually will) get into the mechanism. This disrupts the flow of electricity inside the sensor, and causes the sensor to report erroneous resistance levels. This causes what is known as 'spiking'.

Hall sensors take a different approach. The sensor is magnetic and contactless. It measures a magnets location, and reports that. Hall sensors can report at much higher resolutions than pots, and of course are not bothered by a little dust. Ergo, more reliable, more accurate.

So in your opinion, this is the best out of the lot of the cause this has the Hall Sensors?

[Renan Ruivo]

I wouldn't worry too much about diehard precision on the joystick used on MWO. If its precision you want, stick with the mouse and keyboard


With that in mind, here's a question ... Does using the joystick for movement and the mouse for torso twist works well?

[Corralis]

Renan Ruivo, on 09 June 2012 - 10:00 AM, said:

I wouldn't worry too much about diehard precision on the joystick used on MWO. If its precision you want, stick with the mouse and keyboard


With that in mind, here's a question ... Does using the joystick for movement and the mouse for torso twist works well?

I Imagine that would depend entirely on how many right (or left) hands you have to be able to control both at the same time.

[Thomas Hogarth]

Corralis, on 09 June 2012 - 09:55 AM, said:

So in your opinion, this is the best out of the lot of the cause this has the Hall Sensors?

Based on the outputs from one I have seen, yes. I haven't gotten my hands on one, so I can't speak to the center detent, but it obviously does not use a spring-and-plate centering system, so its likely to be more akin to a logitech in terms of center performance - and that's definitely serviceable. Some people have said that the buttons feel cheap, but I've found that issue on almost all budget sticks. What really matters is if the trigger makes the guns go boom and if the buttons function. The rest I could personally ignore. Your mileage may vary.

[Blaze32]

Corralis, on 09 June 2012 - 09:55 AM, said:

So in your opinion, this is the best out of the lot of the cause this has the Hall Sensors?

looks good but will you be able to know what button to press without looking down? they are tight together and you could by mistake press 2 right? or am i wrong? please respond.

[Renan Ruivo]

Corralis, on 09 June 2012 - 10:02 AM, said:

I Imagine that would depend entirely on how many right (or left) hands you have to be able to control both at the same time.

I'm ambidextrous.

Fear me.

[Corralis]

Blaze32, on 09 June 2012 - 10:03 AM, said:

looks good but will you be able to know what button to press without looking down? they are tight together and you could by mistake press 2 right? or am i wrong? please respond.

Well that has been a concern for the people reviewing this Joystick, however, as Mr. Hogarth says, you won't really need to use those buttons as almost everything you will need is on the stick itself.

[Thomas Hogarth]

Blaze32, on 09 June 2012 - 10:03 AM, said:

looks good but will you be able to know what button to press without looking down? they are tight together and you could by mistake press 2 right? or am i wrong? please respond.

The buttons on the base, eh, yeah. They're too closely spaced. Every time a joystick has had buttons on the base, I revert to the keyboard, so for me it's not a big issue. The buttons on top are actually too widely spaced. We're talking the difference of milliseconds here though.

Here's a review on the TM T.16000M that actually goes into the outputs of the stick:

http://www.hotas.gr/...42/1/0/lang,en/

[Corralis]

Renan Ruivo, on 09 June 2012 - 10:04 AM, said:

I'm ambidextrous.

Fear me.

Oh ****

[Corralis]

Thomas Hogarth, on 09 June 2012 - 10:10 AM, said:

The buttons on the base, eh, yeah. They're too closely spaced. Every time a joystick has had buttons on the base, I revert to the keyboard, so for me it's not a big issue. The buttons on top are actually too widely spaced. We're talking the difference of milliseconds here though.

Here's a review on the TM T.16000M that actually goes into the outputs of the stick:

http://www.hotas.gr/...42/1/0/lang,en/

Yea I think the Thrust Master 16000.M is the one for me then, and it's just over £40 on Amazon so well within the budget. Thanks a lot for all your advice and opinions.

[Blaze32]

Corralis, on 09 June 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

Well that has been a concern for the people reviewing this Joystick, however, as Mr. Hogarth says, you won't really need to use those buttons as almost everything you will need is on the stick itself.

but i use the buttons on the base because i have a slide out keyboard that would be hitting me in the gut if i had to use both not a plesent way to game so i use the buttons on the joystick and if there is not enough i set up my mindstorms with motors and press the buttons when i press the touch sensors( get 2 more buttons!) it works for me!

[Woska]

I have used the Logitech and had no complaints with how it functioned. To me the others you show there look a little awkward, with the stick and throttle so close together, and still parallel. But if you can, find a place that has them and actually handle them a little bit. How it all feels in your hands is very important.

[Suicidal Idiot]

I already have 2 Razer mice, one for work, one for home, and I love them.

My Razer Naga Molten has a the standard 5 buttons and wheel PLUS 12 thumb buttons. If MWO ends up best as a mouse/keyboard game, I'm ready. I'll be able to easily handle all weapon groups from the mouse.



I don't own a Razer Hydra yet, but I intend to give it a try with MWO.


If these don't do it, I'll either go with my Saitek HOTAS setup that I got for PS2 Ace Combat, or the dusty MS Sidewinder Precision Pro.
------------------
As I review this post, it looks like I'm bragging. Not really. I've just been around a long time, accumulated stuff, and learned stuff. Mostly I've learned that if you're going to spend a large chunk of your life doing something, a hundred bucks here and there for high quality tools is cheap. I think I've had the sidewinder for 15 years, and it was like $50-$80 bucks at the time. That is pretty darn cheap per year. I know I bought it to play MechWarrior2 BEFORE Ghost Bear Legacy arrived.

I doubt that lower priced equipment would have lasted nearly as long.

Yeah, $80 for a frigging mouse wasn't good, but I use the darn things every stinking day, and I don't want to spend 8+ hours a day, for years on end, hating my crappy mice.

Seriously, you probably spend multiple times the hours each day on your PC that you do in your car. How much did your car cost?

Edited by Suicidal Idiot, 09 June 2012 - 11:00 AM.

[Corralis]

Suicidal *****, on 09 June 2012 - 10:50 AM, said:

I already have 2 Razer mice, one for work, one for home, and I love them.

My Razer Naga Molten has a the standard 5 buttons and wheel PLUS 12 thumb buttons. If MWO ends up best as a mouse/keyboard game, I'm ready. I'll be able to easily handle all weapon groups from the mouse.



I don't own a Razer Hydra yet, but I intend to give it a try with MWO.


If these don't do it, I'll either go with my Saitek HOTAS setup that I got for PS2 Ace Combat, or the dusty MS Sidewinder Precision Pro.
------------------
As I review this post, it looks like I'm bragging. Not really. I've just been around a long time, accumulated stuff, and learned stuff. Mostly I've learned that if you're going to spend a large chunk of your life doing something, a hundred bucks here and there for high quality tools is cheap. I think I've had the sidewinder for 15 years, and it was like $50-$80 bucks at the time. That is pretty darn cheap per year. I know I bought it to play MechWarrior2 BEFORE Ghost Bear Legacy arrived.

I doubt that lower priced equipment would have lasted nearly as long.

Yeah, $80 for a frigging mouse wasn't good, but I use the darn things every stinking day, and I don't want to spend 8+ hours a day, for years on end, hating my crappy mice.

Seriously, you probably spend multiple times the hours each day on your PC that you do in your car. How much did your car cost?

I couldn't agree more.

I already have the Razer Naga mouse and the Razer Nostromo, but I think if I use the Thrustmaster T.16000M Joystick along with the Nostromo, I can get a really nice set-up going on.

Actually Isn't the Razer Hydra an Xbox 360 controller?

[Marcus Tseng]

dogowar, on 09 June 2012 - 09:29 AM, said:

I used to have a Speedlink Blackwidow & have to say it was a very good & comfortable stick. I used it for flight Sims such as IL2 & Rise of flight with no problems.

Dogowar does the black Widow have rudder control on twistable stick?