28 replies to this topic

[Victor Morson]

Kaldor, on 27 June 2013 - 08:14 AM, said:

The AC2 by itself is fine IMO from a damage standpoint, but I feel that you have to run at least 2 of them to even be remotely effective. 4 of them function just fine in Jagers and the 4X but only because you have the tonnage to run 4.

I've come to the way of thinking that the biggest reason the AC/2 and AC/5 aren't very good weapons is their heat. In particular the AC/2. There's a lot of 'mechs that could run 3 and I bet would be really good at it even, but the weapon quickly turns hotter than ER PPCs.

Kmieciu, on 27 June 2013 - 09:11 AM, said:

Even decreasing the spread from 1.5 to 0.5 makes them quite potent in the testing grounds.
I don't think we should increase the damage any more. 200 damage per ton is already quite a lot.

I don't want to increase the overall DPS; I want to increase the "up front" damage in some manner, giving MGs a strong burst followed by a cool down delay.

Effectively most weapons that force you to stare at a target are inferior, because they in turn make you an easy target. Almost any one of their teammates can pick what they want to blow off you while you're locked in one direction to get reasonable DPS.

It's partly why those people who think MGs are great because they got decent damage with them don't understand that they're actually bad. They are literally only usable if you go ignored for half the match.

[KAT Ayanami]

Machine guns are OP by far. If you do not have armor and the enemy has a couple of them, they kill you in a couple of seconds.

[stjobe]

KAT Ayanami, on 27 June 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

Machine guns are OP by far. If you do not have armor and the enemy has a couple of them, they kill you in a couple of seconds.

In case you didn't know, MGs do the same damage to internal structure as they do to armour; the increased damage is only to internal components, and destroying those won't kill you.

Just about any other weapon kills armour-stripped 'mechs faster than MGs.

[Victor Morson]

KAT Ayanami, on 27 June 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

Machine guns are OP by far. If you do not have armor and the enemy has a couple of them, they kill you in a couple of seconds.

If you're armor is gone you're in bigger trouble if anything other than a MG hits you, too. While it's busy damaging your heatsinks a PPC will blow you away.

[General Taskeen]

If MG's were OP the game would be called "MG Warrior Online," and since they currently aren't... well, I guess its obvious that they are Use 2 Lose in their current format.

[Victor Morson]

General Taskeen, on 27 June 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

If MG's were OP the game would be called "MG Warrior Online," and since they currently aren't... well, I guess its obvious that they are Use 2 Lose in their current format.

Yep. However you go about the actual system of giving them higher up front / some pause to not overdo DPS, it needs to happen, because just continually buffing their DPS isn't going to work. It'd need to do way, way more damage than a small laser to justify that.

[Kaldor]

stjobe, on 27 June 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

Hey, no need to tell me, I've been fighting for a viable MG for light ballistic 'mechs since closed beta.

But I disagree on the AC/2 - it shouldn't be carried by lights. They should carry the MG - the "no-heat, extremely close-range AC/2" kind of MG we don't yet have.

But you and I both know that getting inside of 90m right now with a light in the current meta is generally not so good for your health. Ran into that last night. 5 lights, 1 Hunchy, 1 Stalker, 1 Fatlas on a conquest drop. Was playing my Highlander 733 with 2 PCCs, gauss, 2 SSRMs. They tried to swarm me. I killed 4 lights, and the Stalker. We still lost on points but was very satisfying. Short range AC2s better known as MGs would have done nothing for them. Thats part of another discussion though where heat magically gets balanced and high heat and alpha boating go away, lol.

Victor Morson, on 27 June 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

I've come to the way of thinking that the biggest reason the AC/2 and AC/5 aren't very good weapons is their heat. In particular the AC/2. There's a lot of 'mechs that could run 3 and I bet would be really good at it even, but the weapon quickly turns hotter than ER PPCs.

I don't want to increase the overall DPS; I want to increase the "up front" damage in some manner, giving MGs a strong burst followed by a cool down delay.

I dont think AC2s get hot until your running 3, maybe 4 of them. You wouldnt want to run run more than a pair on a light or most mediums, and heavies run enough heatsinks to offset the extra heat. I did run 2 AC2s in my Hunchy 4G, and it was OK as far as heat goes and I never really had issues with heat in my 3 AC2 Dragon 5N or Phract 4X with 4 AC2s. My Phract 4X has no issue with heat with 4 AC5s and 2 MLs with 10 DHS's.

Id like to see the upfront damage just come as more bullets flying out the end of the gun with a little bit of heat. Think mini gun vs machine gun, heh.

[Kheldar Silk]

KAT Ayanami, on 27 June 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

Machine guns are OP by far. If you do not have armor and the enemy has a couple of them, they kill you in a couple of seconds.

The only thing that I've found about MG's being OP is their ability to strip armor. Which goes against everything FASA and all other License holders have gone by and what PGI followed until the recent changes. MG don't do **** until the armor is off. A mech with 4 MG's or more shouldn't be effective until his buddy has stripped the armor. Other than that, they are just fine the way they are.

[stjobe]

Kheldar Silk, on 28 June 2013 - 11:23 AM, said:

The only thing that I've found about MG's being OP is their ability to strip armor. Which goes against everything FASA and all other License holders have gone by and what PGI followed until the recent changes. MG don't do **** until the armor is off. A mech with 4 MG's or more shouldn't be effective until his buddy has stripped the armor. Other than that, they are just fine the way they are.

What?

The only incarnation of the BattleTech Universe where the MG is ineffective against armour is MWO. In all other incarnations the MG was a regular weapon - it stripped armour just fine in TT, doing 2 damage per turn. Four of them did 8 damage per turn - enough to strip a Commando's front CT bare of all armour.