33 replies to this topic

[AntharPrime]

By my understanding, like the Founder's mechs, Project Phoenix mechs are just the base varients with Cbill and Loyalty points boosts. This is actually what PGI advertised when selling the Founders mechs, they said that they would only be selling convenience and all equipement in game will be available to paying and free players alike. This is what sold me on the Founders program and why for some strange reason my credit card seems to end up just sitting on the edge of my keyboard when I pull up the Project Phoenix page.

The only thing that is somewhat P2W is the Hero mechs offered by PGI and only in the case that these mechs offer unique hardpoint options that are not available within the same chasis. This is where I feel that PGI broke from their promise that all in game equipement would be available to all for free. However IF (notice the emphasis) PGI limits themselves to a minor pay wall infraction as this, they are doing good compared to the rest of the F2Play market and I might just buy that $80 package on top of my $120 Founders and $80 Founders that I bought for my son. I'm just waiting to see how the Battlemaster looks like and I hope PGI releases info on Community Warfare so that us more reluctant spenders can make a more informed decision.

Note that before MWO, I have never spent more than $60 on a game much less buying more and more from a microtransaction based game.

[JeremyCrow]

Paying to have exclusive content != P2W

P2W would be having coolant only for MC (like the original announcement implied), or special ammo that would give you extra damage, also for MC.

The Hero mechs are not better (most of the times they are even worse) than their non hero variants.

Edited by JeremyCrow, 27 June 2013 - 11:40 AM.

[ryoma]

Having mechs that offer new choices unavailable to the public for 1-3 months is pay to win for the duration of those months.

Phoenix buyers will be getting

3 shiity lights
3 mediums, 1 being kinda meh, but the other two will likely have better hardpoints
3 Heavies of unknown strength
and 3 Assualts of unknown strength

[Blair]

ryoma, on 27 June 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

Having mechs that offer new choices unavailable to the public for 1-3 months is pay to win for the duration of those months.

That assumes that Phoenix 'Mechs are all strictly better than every other 'Mech currently available to players. There's is nothing so far to indicate that is the case. In your own words:

ryoma, on 27 June 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

Phoenix buyers will be getting

3 shiity lights
3 mediums, 1 being kinda meh, but the other two will likely have better hardpoints
3 Heavies of unknown strength
and 3 Assualts of unknown strength

So what, exactly, is P2W about it?

[Clownwarlord]

Well not sure if my opinion matters but here it is anyways.

Is MWO P2W?

Answer ... No.

See every mech in the game has different spec such as armour, speed, size, and agility. After that it comes down to weapon load out. As for such, there is currently no weapon out there that you have to pay mc to get instead every weapon, all ammo, and most modules (not all but most that everyone uses) are non mc. In truth this game comes down to three things; teamwork, pilot abilities, and game mechanics. So long as these are balanced then you always have a way to win.

GL and HF.

[Takony]

Well, for the "Phoenix" Shadow Hawk, the expression "not P2W" is an ermm... understatement?

[StandingCow]

Anyone calling them P2W has no idea P2W actually means.

[ryoma]

StandingCow, on 27 June 2013 - 10:00 PM, said:

Anyone calling them P2W has no idea P2W actually means.

Spend cash for an advantage over non cash players.

I consider a greater number of tactical options to be an advantage, so yes these would be pay to win because of the increased number of options. Supposing these mechs are competitive it will most definitely be P2W.

Edit for example
Say that the Highlander was released as Cash only. Considering that They're a relatively competitive chassis this would definitely be considered unfair no?

Edited by ryoma, 27 June 2013 - 11:43 PM.

[Guchion]

All of the phoenix varients are going to be able to buy for C-Bills, the only difference is that the thunderbolt shadowhawk and battlemaster will be time locked effectively.

Thats not pay to win, unless the new mechs are significantly better than the current mechs of the time, which I highly doubt. Even then, the most you'll have to wait is 1-3 months depending on which one you want?

P2W? No, time locked exclusive? Yes.
None of the Phoenix exclusive other bits will effect in game, so I dunno where people are getting this from.

[StandingCow]

ryoma, on 27 June 2013 - 11:41 PM, said:

Spend cash for an advantage over non cash players.

I consider a greater number of tactical options to be an advantage, so yes these would be pay to win because of the increased number of options. Supposing these mechs are competitive it will most definitely be P2W.

Edit for example
Say that the Highlander was released as Cash only. Considering that They're a relatively competitive chassis this would definitely be considered unfair no?

An early release is not pay to win, that is paying for an early access.

Pay to win is when you can buy something for RL money only that gives a distinct advantage in a fight. An example we used to use (but its gone now) was gold ammo in world of tanks, you would pay real money for ammo that did more damage than normal ammo. Or let's say PGI released clan mechs/weapons for real life money only, that would cause a well deserved uproar.

Even if the phoenix mechs came out for just people that purchased this package, unless they were superior on the field of battle, it wouldn't be pay to win.

[sirius89]

The people talking in this thread about P2W but not knowing what it is........... *facepalm*

Example for P2W:

Let's say PGI would introduce the "super duper wub wub dubstep laser" that has twice the dmg a LL has and is only available for MC.THAT would be pay to win.

Project Phoenix is NOT pay2win.Looking at the hardpoints you get for the unique looking mechs from the PP deal they are not any better than the hardpoints for other mechs which probably means the hardpoints for the standard chassis won't be OP either.Project Phoenix is only Pay2haveshitearly and nothing else.

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

even though the battlemaster looks fantastic pgi still has two patches to satisfy my worries about the games future

[ryoma]

Battlemaster looks pretty amazing for its weight class

[Angel of Annihilation]

ryoma, on 27 June 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

Having mechs that offer new choices unavailable to the public for 1-3 months is pay to win for the duration of those months.

For this to be the case, this would mean that the mech in the Phoenix Package would have to completely dominate the battlefield rendering all existing mechs obsolete and non-competitive.

Somehow I don't think that will be the case. The Locust looks to be crap, the Shadow Hawk not far behind if one of the variants doesn't have much better hardpoints. The Thunderbolt looks like it might at least be competitive but not overpowering in the least. The only questionable one is the Battlemaster which looks to be a beast but still not so much of a beast that it will overwhelm the existing Stalkers, Altas, Highlanders and soon to come Victors it will compete against.

So how again is this pay-to-win?

[Mahws]

The only mech that I'd classify as P2W is the ShadowHawk. The Phoenix variant might have weak hardpoints, but the others won't and as a 55 tonne medium with high mounted ballistics and good hardpoint mixes it'll have a distinct advantage over other medium mechs.

However medium mechs are pretty much dead in the water at the moment, so I doubt many will complain about it.

[ryoma]

Mahws, on 28 June 2013 - 06:45 PM, said:

The only mech that I'd classify as P2W is the ShadowHawk. The Phoenix variant might have weak hardpoints, but the others won't and as a 55 tonne medium with high mounted ballistics and good hardpoint mixes it'll have a distinct advantage over other medium mechs.

However medium mechs are pretty much dead in the water at the moment, so I doubt many will complain about it.

Yeah, imagine one with 2 less ballistic points and 1-2 more missile points in the right arm or left arm.

Beastly

[GODzillaGSPB]

But they certainly add in a new flavor of "pay to...". It's not "pay to win", nor "pay for convenience", but it is "pay to avoid annoyance."

All those players who will not buy the pack will have to wait several months (!!!) for the standard versions of the mechs to be relased. All this time they can watch other people play them.

Worst case scenario: More people will get annoyed with the game and leave. In the end the phoenix players are a small group of elites in a dying game they spent 80$ on. Now that'd be great, eh?

[Ghogiel]

It's pure speculation to say they aren't pay to win.

[StonedVet]

I wouldn't call the layouts in this program worthless though, they look like when equipped properly that they can be devastating to say the least. I can see a 4-5 PPC battlemaster already. Not gonna be pretty.

[Pando]

Lowridah, on 29 June 2013 - 02:47 AM, said:

I wouldn't call the layouts in this program worthless though, they look like when equipped properly that they can be devastating to say the least. I can see a 4-5 PPC battlemaster already. Not gonna be pretty.

using MWO mechbay program...it can run 6 just like the stalker

or 4 2er 2reg