75 replies to this topic

[DaZur]

Rat of the Legion Vega, on 27 June 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

Yet more evidence the Stalker is undersized compared to all the other assaults. Why take a catapult as a missile platform when the Stalker has the exact same slope mobility but way more armor, way more missiles, no vulnerable head hitbox etc. etc.

Fix the Stalker after you're done fixing slopes and formatting, pls.

Why Cat over Stalker? Three words... "Speed" "Jump Jets"

[DaZur]

Thontor, on 27 June 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

exactly, even if the Catapult slows down on a slightly less steep slope than the Stalker does, it'll still be going faster than the Stalker can on level ground.

and Jump Jets means it can go up even the steepest slopes, up to a certain height anyways.

It's going to be an interesting tactical conundrum when we get Mechs positioned on perches only same / similar Mechs can get to...

[Sephlock]

Tennex, on 27 June 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

if they are simulating physics what about a speed up for going down a slope.

doesn't make sense to have one without the other

YES! B MUST HAVE MECH TOBOGGAN RACING! LIKE MARIO KART BUT WITH PPCS!

[Steel Will]

MeatForBrains, on 27 June 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

Ask the Devs #39
Prosperity Park: Are there any longer-term plans to add a Deep Water penalty to the movement speed of Mechs traveling through significantly-deep water?
A: We’re adding some new movement code that will make mechs behave more realistically when traversing rolling terrain. Once in, we can examine adding water friction if we feel it will add a benefit to gameplay.

It will add a benefit to gameplay. Please add.

[One Medic Army]

DaZur, on 27 June 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

It's going to be an interesting tactical conundrum when we get Mechs positioned on perches only same / similar Mechs can get to...

Perhaps a reason for more arm mounted weaponry? So you can fire up at the guys firind down at you from their JJ perch?

Overall, the mechs that are going to get hurt most by this seem to be:
Raven
Hunchback
Centurion
Atlas

Heavy reliance on torso weaponry, combined with newly restricted movement.

[DaZur]

One Medic Army, on 27 June 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

Perhaps a reason for more arm mounted weaponry? So you can fire up at the guys firind down at you from their JJ perch?

Overall, the mechs that are going to get hurt most by this seem to be:
Raven
Hunchback
Centurion
Atlas

Heavy reliance on torso weaponry, combined with newly restricted movement.

Yes, a slight nerf to them due to torso weapons... But also a secondary buff due to incline access, maneuverability and speed potential.

Mediums will quickly become "relevant" again IMHO...

[One Medic Army]

DaZur, on 27 June 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

Yes, a slight nerf to them due to torso weapons... But also a secondary buff due to incline access, maneuverability and speed potential.

Mediums will quickly become "relevant" again IMHO...

Well, except for the hunchback.
Hunchback in Canyon network is going to get hosed, since it can only approach from very limited directions, and the directions it can flee from are even more limited. No more hit+run unless you're very good at dodging and very fast, or you've got jumpjets.

[FrostCollar]

Those who start playing the game right after this should be fine, but people just learning are going to have quite a bump in the learning curve. Nevertheless, this change has been needed for quite some time and I'm quite happy to see it!

[Ralgas]

hmmm, they just threw map tactics on its head for all bar river city. Will be interesting to see how heavy metal fares in this brave new world...........

[One Medic Army]

Ralgas, on 27 June 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

hmmm, they just threw map tactics on its head for all bar river city. Will be interesting to see how heavy metal fares in this brave new world...........

North city area in RC is now impossible to enter except by the 2 paved roads or jumpjets.
I'd call that a pretty big change.

[DaZur]

One Medic Army, on 27 June 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

Well, except for the hunchback.
Hunchback in Canyon network is going to get hosed, since it can only approach from very limited directions, and the directions it can flee from are even more limited. No more hit+run unless you're very good at dodging and very fast, or you've got jumpjets.

Mechs like the Hunchie will pretty much need to traverse as high as possible via road / plainer topology and stay there... Will require a bit of forethought and knowledge of the "lay of the land"... but doable.

Still... in one fell swoop the meta swings to encourage mediums. Twil be very interesting...

LOL! I'm actually excited for this change!

Edited by DaZur, 27 June 2013 - 01:50 PM.

[Thunder Lips Express]

3rdworld, on 27 June 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

so lets bandaid terrible balance by making hill humping take longer!

Then lets actually not make the best mech, the worst climber!

it's great when people demand balance updates and fixes and when they do just that people cry that it wasn't exactly what they wanted worked on at that specific time. play the effing game and please ****, your QQ in this instance is not warrented

[KAT Ayanami]

3rdworld, on 27 June 2013 - 10:26 AM, said:

I am glad they had time for that. Not any of the major issues with the game. I am glad that man hours were spent on this.

They had to add it sooner or later. It was very clear that its something that needed to be done.

[Tennex]

DaZur, on 27 June 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

Actually... For any bipedal mechanic there is a fairly abrupt speed limit reached while descending a decline... We have to restrict / brake our stride lest we fall on our pudgy faces.

We don't have linear acceleration on a decline unless we are sporting wheels...

Though we can control exactly how fast we want to stride down a hill (just like how fast we want to go up a hill). And using the same amount of effort, we go faster down a hill than on a flat plane. Its just simple physics

Human control is irrelevant to the issue of speed up and down a hill. Because that same control can be exerted when walking in any manner; a slippery surface for example, to set our movement to a certain speed.

And since neuronal/reflexive control of movement, pattern generation is such a complex matter that we can't even figure out for humans. I think its a little premature to speculate how robots will do it lol.

But i'm not opposed to the explanation that robots have some sort of traction control going down a hill. Its just not a very complete explanation

Edited by Tennex, 27 June 2013 - 02:02 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Just so everyone knows, there is a dedicated Feedback Thread specifically for this Command Chair posting...

[Ralgas]

One Medic Army, on 27 June 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

North city area in RC is now impossible to enter except by the 2 paved roads or jumpjets.
I'd call that a pretty big change.

there you go, even bigger than i'd considered........

it's going to make volcano humping a slow slow process on caustic
alpine *yeah*
tormaline - most of those spires should now be off limits unless you are jumping around on them
canyon - is going to be rough, close combat trench warfare
forest colony takes out a lot of the high hides unless you have jj's strapped on.

The stalker takes a thumping out of this........ a lot of his hill hides just became a liability.

Edited by Ralgas, 27 June 2013 - 02:12 PM.

[Bagheera]

Kevin Meek, on 27 June 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

Regarding posts on why 'Mechs with heavier in-game tonnage can find themselves in a smaller archetype:

In addition to the movement for slopes, those archetypes are also consolidating the Mech vs world collision capsules.

Before this system, each 'Mech would have its own pill-shaped collision proxy fitted for its rough shape, making a ton of different 'Mechs get stuck in slightly different locations. Now, with 5 capsules, we can design levels for specific collision capsule sizes, and find/fix stuck bugs much easier.

For that reason, the 'Mech archetypes looked at grouping relative size (height, length, and width) as its main consideration. Because of the extra big shoulders of the missile boxes, and the very long nose, the catapult would need to be in a larger capsule category than the heavier Cataphract. I don't think that you'll find the movement abilities between two neighboring archetypes so substantial that it would be effectively nerfing or giving substantial advantages to any 'Mech that seems out of order due to its assumed weight but smaller frame. Especially with engine speed and momentum of lighter 'Mechs still being factored in (read: a slow moving Cataphract in a smaller movement archetype is going to probably still have a harder longer time than a faster moving Catapult at climbing any substantial hill).

That being said, it's easy enough to switch some 'Mechs into a different archetype or to tune the climb angles for any archetype if needed. I don't forsee any issues with the current grouping but you don't have to worry that things are 100% set in stone as far as grouping or angles are concerned.

Triple clarification: Collision capsules for 'Mechs here are just referring to 'Mech vs. world collision, each 'Mech still has its own unique collision proxys for 'Mech vs. weapon.

edit: fixing super f'd up formatting from c/p'ing.

Thank you!

So is it safe to say that the "World Collision Capsules" and their categories don't have an impact on Accel/Decel/Turn Rate/Twist and other attributes not dependent on (but perhaps later influenced by) terrain?

In your example, it's possible for a Cataphract and a Catapult to have identical (or at least near as makes no difference) speeds - has any internal testing played out similar scenarios?

Edited by Bagheera, 27 June 2013 - 02:19 PM.

[Hellcat420]

very nice change. now add the tt heat penalty scale and fix heat capacity and i will be a happy camper!

[Tennex]

Kevin Meek, on 27 June 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

Regarding posts on why 'Mechs with heavier in-game tonnage can find themselves in a smaller archetype:

In addition to the movement for slopes, those archetypes are also consolidating the Mech vs world collision capsules.

Before this system, each 'Mech would have its own pill-shaped collision proxy fitted for its rough shape, making a ton of different 'Mechs get stuck in slightly different locations. Now, with 5 capsules, we can design levels for specific collision capsule sizes, and find/fix stuck bugs much easier.

For that reason, the 'Mech archetypes looked at grouping relative size (height, length, and width) as its main consideration. Because of the extra big shoulders of the missile boxes, and the very long nose, the catapult would need to be in a larger capsule category than the heavier Cataphract. I don't think that you'll find the movement abilities between two neighboring archetypes so substantial that it would be effectively nerfing or giving substantial advantages to any 'Mech that seems out of order due to its assumed weight but smaller frame. Especially with engine speed and momentum of lighter 'Mechs still being factored in (read: a slow moving Cataphract in a smaller movement archetype is going to probably still have a harder longer time than a faster moving Catapult at climbing any substantial hill).

That being said, it's easy enough to switch some 'Mechs into a different archetype or to tune the climb angles for any archetype if needed. I don't forsee any issues with the current grouping but you don't have to worry that things are 100% set in stone as far as grouping or angles are concerned.

Triple clarification: Collision capsules for 'Mechs here are just referring to 'Mech vs. world collision, each 'Mech still has its own unique collision proxys for 'Mech vs. weapon.

edit: fixing super f'd up formatting from c/p'ing.

i think of it more of as a mountain climbing/mobility stat anyway. Which would have nothing to do with size

tiny - great climber
small - good climber
medium - okay climber
large - bad climber
Huge - horrible climber

[sirius89]

3rdworld, on 27 June 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

so lets bandaid terrible balance by making hill humping take longer!

Then lets actually not make the best mech, the worst climber!

This change was planned for a long time.

Also,there are more than 5 people working in their studio.It's not like all developers were working on this particular feature.So quit the whining.Jesus..........


Great change right there PGI.Another step in the right direction.Will change gameplay on certain maps drastically.

Edited by sirius89, 27 June 2013 - 02:47 PM.