75 replies to this topic

[Asmudius Heng]

I am quite excited about this actually ... very interested to see how it changes things on certain maps and i may have just found my love of JJs again

[C E Dwyer]

have to admit I was looking forward to this, but hill climbing should be based on weight not size and not this seeming random choices, fact a victor climbs worse than a stalker has me shaking my head( yes it has jump jets..I know)if anything mech with hands should be much better at climbing then those without, as arms counter balance

I guess there are those in the dev team that must really like the stalker and multi pcc sniping, also as mentioned by others gravity would make mech go down hill faster..

also mechs with longer legs would be better than those with short stubby legs

Edited by Cathy, 27 June 2013 - 03:04 PM.

[Lootee]

Cathy, on 27 June 2013 - 03:02 PM, said:

also mechs with longer legs would be better than those with short stubby legs

Blasphemy. Urbanmechs are great mountaineers. They're the dwarves of BattleTech.

[Roburn Bliss]

Will need to test this before i can be certain, but I think the balance should be more like:

Tiny: Jenner, Commando, Spider
SlowdownAngle:40°

Small: Raven, Cicada, Blackjack, Centurion, Dragon, Trebuchet, Hunchback
SlowdownAngle: 35°

Medium: JagerMech, Awesome, Quickdraw,
SlowdownAngle: 30°

Large: Catapult, Cataphract,
SlowdownAngle: 25°

Huge: Atlas, Highlander, Victor, Stalker,
SlowdownAngle: 20°

[Ningyo]

Kevin Meek, on 27 June 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

Regarding posts on why 'Mechs with heavier in-game tonnage can find themselves in a smaller archetype:

Spoiler

In addition to the movement for slopes, those archetypes are also consolidating the Mech vs world collision capsules.

Before this system, each 'Mech would have its own pill-shaped collision proxy fitted for its rough shape, making a ton of different 'Mechs get stuck in slightly different locations. Now, with 5 capsules, we can design levels for specific collision capsule sizes, and find/fix stuck bugs much easier.

For that reason, the 'Mech archetypes looked at grouping relative size (height, length, and width) as its main consideration. Because of the extra big shoulders of the missile boxes, and the very long nose, the catapult would need to be in a larger capsule category than the heavier Cataphract. I don't think that you'll find the movement abilities between two neighboring archetypes so substantial that it would be effectively nerfing or giving substantial advantages to any 'Mech that seems out of order due to its assumed weight but smaller frame. Especially with engine speed and momentum of lighter 'Mechs still being factored in (read: a slow moving Cataphract in a smaller movement archetype is going to probably still have a harder longer time than a faster moving Catapult at climbing any substantial hill).

That being said, it's easy enough to switch some 'Mechs into a different archetype or to tune the climb angles for any archetype if needed. I don't forsee any issues with the current grouping but you don't have to worry that things are 100% set in stone as far as grouping or angles are concerned.

Triple clarification: Collision capsules for 'Mechs here are just referring to 'Mech vs. world collision, each 'Mech still has its own unique collision proxys for 'Mech vs. weapon.

edit: fixing super f'd up formatting from c/p'ing.

Is there anyway a option for liking a post more than once can be implemented because I just want hold it down on "Like this" for a few minutes.


Also a suggestion I made in the suggestion thread of allowing mechs with both arms having hand actuators be able to move up slopes of up to 50% (instead of 45%) at a rate of 5-10% speed. Right now hand actuators are purely detrimental to mechs, and this might gives them a minor useful perk. Not sure how many slopes this would allow them to climb, but with the slow speed I doubt it would become too powerful and would at least make hand actuators have some use.
(note if you have ever climbed a 50% slope yourself you will likely find yourself using your hands, that is very very steep)

What do others think of this idea?



Oh and in reply to people saying mechs should move faster downhill, that is probably true up to a 10-20% slope, beyond that they would need to go slower, or would almost certainly lose their balance and fall. (I would say try running down a steep hill, but might be dangerous. Maybe look for youtube videos of people running down hills? bet there are a bunch of people falling on the way down people like to post videos of others getting hurt.)

Edited by Ningyo, 27 June 2013 - 11:37 PM.

[aniviron]

I'm cautiously optimistic about this, but I do worry that a lot of the maps weren't designed with this in mind, which will make many areas unaccessible without jumpjets. While there are for sure places that should be JJ-only, the maps that weren't designed for this might have too many. Only time will tell though, and overall I hope this is a positive change.

[Devil Fox]

I look forward to leading a fast jump capable pack with my Victor come next week!

The first thing I noticed though from the maps was the fact that essentially you should already know where your mech can get up and down in the maps... I know where the ramps for heavy or assault mechs are in canyon. All this change does is make the gradient another factor in use of cover and firing solutions, this will hopefully lead to more organized tactics and firing line solutions to evolve.

It also has the benefit of being able to utilise battlemechs that have the speed and firepower to perform hit and run tactics across various terrain, the only downside is that alpha boats are still the major threat in the current meta and this really only affects their possible movement paths and their speed into related cover.

[Ralgas]

aniviron, on 27 June 2013 - 11:41 PM, said:

I'm cautiously optimistic about this, but I do worry that a lot of the maps weren't designed with this in mind, which will make many areas unaccessible without jumpjets. While there are for sure places that should be JJ-only, the maps that weren't designed for this might have too many. Only time will tell though, and overall I hope this is a positive change.

It already got dealt with in both the announcement and in a podcast. At worst maybe the really early maps, however the intent is to remove a lot of the stuck in terrains by making them inaccessible as was intended in the 1st place.

Add to this things like the spires in tourmaline will only be for jumpers (and then they wont be able to maneuver once up there without another jump) as well as the nerf to rof this puts on hill pop snipers and we have a pretty well rounded solution to altering the meta somewhat

[Shiro Matsumoto]

Sounds good, and advocates using Lights & Mediums more.... also stops the rediculous climbing on Alpine

BTW i support the idea, that Mechs with hand actuators get 2.5% more slope per hand, as the mech can use them to climb.

Edited by John McFianna, 28 June 2013 - 02:37 AM.

[Stardancer01]

While I absolutely agree with max climb angles being listed as part of the mech stats
Step over height & leap height should also be included for 90deg vertical small objects.

I notice the islands in water in river city there are lots of small 25deg slops which an Atlas should be able to step over.

Also lots of small 90deg boulders in lots of maps that a commando should be able to leap over without braking its legs or needing jump jets.

Small mechs should be able to leap unto/over what massive mechs should stride/step unto/over.

[LordDante]

this is one of the best news for lights in a long time now u really can USE the terrain to ur advantage. cant wait to get rid of pesky ssrm trebs while using slopes and jj. great change ! now nerv seismic and im happy

[Ralgas]

Stardancer01, on 28 June 2013 - 02:44 AM, said:

While I absolutely agree with max climb angles being listed as part of the mech stats
Step over height & leap height should also be included for 90deg vertical small objects.

I notice the islands in water in river city there are lots of small 25deg slops which an Atlas should be able to step over.

Also lots of small 90deg boulders in lots of maps that a commando should be able to leap over without braking its legs or needing jump jets.

Small mechs should be able to leap unto/over what massive mechs should stride/step unto/over.

Be nice to see it added to the acceleration graphs with ui 2.0

Edited by Ralgas, 28 June 2013 - 04:10 AM.

[DaZur]

LOL! The retired personal trainer (emphasis on biomechanics & kinesiology) and being slightly OCD.. I can't let the whole accelerate while walking down hill thing slide...

Bipedal animals (and since they are modeled as bipeds and conically utilize our nervous system for balance... Battlemechs) when walking / running down hill use eccentric contraction to mitigate the effects of inertia to limit acceleration, thus keeping us from accelerating past our ability to control forward momentum and winding up on our pudgy faces.

So... "Yes" while walking / running down hill, natural tendency secondary to inertia / gravity is for us to accelerate "slightly" but we naturally / instinctively govern momentum in an attempt to maintain our preferred upright orientation.

In order to accelerate down hill like folks keep referring to... We would have to consciously ignore our natural instincts allowing us to accelerate / gain unregulated forward momentum / speed in a linear curve.

Yeah, I know... I suck the fun out of everything.

My wife agrees...

[Enigmos]

Steel Will, on 27 June 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:

I'm actually quite stoked about this.

Hmm, except:

Medium: Cataphract
SlowdownAngle: 30°

Large: Quickdraw
SlowdownAngle: 25°

That's just mean.

Lower center of gravity=more stable on a slope

[Maliconus]

I approve......

[Max Liao]

Tennex, on 27 June 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

if they are simulating physics what about a speed up for going down a slope.

doesn't make sense to have one without the other

'Mechs should go slower when moving downhill, unless they are going to incorporate skidding/falling damage. This is inline with both tabletop and the nature of bipeds to need to focus more on balance (hence the use of the neurohelmet to transfer balance data to the gyro). A 'Mech going faster should be considered as falling and take appropriate damage - which can be considerable depending on the height of the fall.