522 replies to this topic

[Krzysztof z Bagien]

Right now there are some places where you can climb up, but when you stop you start sliding down. I assume with those new rules we will be able to stop halfway up the hill and not slide back down, right?
Also - while I'm not convinced mechs should go down faster, they should definitely have better acceleration while going down.

Edit: one more thing: to everyone who uses "chicken leg" term - do you realise that chickens' legs, as well as other birds', work exactly like human's legs?
No animal has knees that can bend backwards, they only bend forwards just the same as human knees. What appear to be knees bending backwards is actually the ankle joint.

Edited by Krzysztof z Bagien, 27 June 2013 - 04:24 PM.

[Lord Psycho]

tuffy963, on 27 June 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

Riddle me this, Batman...

Why does a 60T mech have the same movement characteristic on angled surface as an 80T mech (read Quickdraw and Awesome)? What law of physics is this tenant simulating? Seriously, when did volume start to dominate an object's ability overcome gravity and get traction on a slope. 80T mech should have a harder time getting up the hill than the 60T mech. PERIOD.

Am I crazy here? It seems much more logical that engine power and weight should be the defining characteristics, not physical size. Read my earlier post for more on this...

Further, I am a bit disappointed to see the Quick Draw in the "Large" mech category as it implies that the PGI team intentionally made the Quick Draw larger than other 60, 70, and 80 Ton mechs. This is disappointing to me because there dozens of threads and comments since the last patch (at PGI request) providing feedback about how the QD is too large... and not a single post from PGI saying "We did that on purpose." As one of the people who provided some of that earnest feedback that the QD was visually too big, it is kind of a bummer for me to have reverse engineer the truth from another thread, than just get some good ole' fashioned feedback from PGI on their logic for sizing their mechs and when they decide to "jumbo" one over another.

them short stubby legs have something to do with that...although I think alot of this is dependant of how farthe legs should've been able to move anyways......

[3Xtr3m3]

A high angle of downslope plus a high throttle setting should equal more speed, but at a damage to the mech.

In other words, on downslope watch your speed, too fast and you leg/kill yourself.

Just sayin'

[White Bear 84]

Galen Crayn, on 27 June 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

Nice move... They do not bring new maps but they give us the old one in better... Come on PGI, thats a nice start but we still need new maps and so many other things (ballance, ui2.0, cw...)

Its got nothing to do with the maps, its an inherent mechanism within the game. If they are fixing up the in game mechanisms then im down with that - same realm as hit detection, tripping, clipping mechs etc.

Naturally the change will apply to all new maps.. ..which are also coming up!

All these things are being worked on!!

[Ozric]

Great changes, very pleased.

But I am a little confused about the reasoning behind some of the mech size choices. For example, why is the catapult less maneuverable than the jagermech at 65 tons, or the 70 ton cataphract for that matter? Can we have a little clarification as to the thinking here?

But basically it's great idea, and it's awesome that you're throwing it in next patch.

[Devil Fox]

To be honest I look at those maps and you will still have the same issues with terrain movement and possibilities. All that changes is you lose speed based on a mech, I think experience and feel for the maps in various mechs will be what teaches you rather then trying to remember the type of mech you are and the slope gradients of areas on the maps.

But does this mean we get +speed modifiers going down hill at certain slopes? or will we continue to just slide down the wall and hit the ground?

[Dude42]

Awesome change. Makes jumpjets much more useful for something besides poptarting.

I approve.

[Hansh0tfirst]

The Raven is classed in the same category as the Cicada, while the Jenner is paired with the Commando and Spider? Seriously?

ALL Jenners support jumpjets, 300-rated engines, AND have the SAME tonnage as a Raven. But the Jenner merits a slowdown angle advantage? Huh?? Why?

Excluding the 3L (obviously) the 2X and 4X are arguably two of the worst light mechs currently in the game. Now they're going to be at even more of a disadvantage? Is this completely arbitrary, or is there some reason behind this?

[Xeno Phalcon]

This will make lights unhappy a bit especially ravens but im glad I still enjoy jump jets, canyon network is going to bet a pain for jumpless mechs (more then it already is).

[InMidnightClad]

Well my gut reaction to this before i think too deep into it is that it penalizes mobility. Anything that penalizes mobility makes closing the gap between mechs harder. Anything that makes closing the gap harder encourages long range combat. Anything that encourages long range combat encourages using Gauss and PPC. And that I don't like. The needle is already so far over if feels like you guys are just trying to snap it off.

Now the friction slowdown from wall grinding i can get behind. It will keep us Light pilots honest and maybe scare a few kiddies back into the middle weight classes.

Now as far as the walking downhill goes. All these people talking about a mech should move faster cleary have never ran down a hill. Allow me to enlighten you.



Running downhill sucks, and you trip, and you can't stop.

In the absence of tripping mechanics i'm fine with just calling it a wash and saying that mechs would move slower to avoid tripping. At most id say allow them to always move at 100% downhill, but drastically reduce a mechs ability to decelerate.

Edited by InMidnightClad, 27 June 2013 - 05:31 PM.

[Rwraith]

It's a good idea that makes sense. Good job.

[Ezekeel666]

Complete nonsense to give JM a better ability to climb than Catapults. Not only is it physically wrong, because the knee joints of the Cata are bend backwards giving the Cata a better ability to keep its center of gravity above the feet preventing it from falling over. But also it will make the K2 an even less attractive choice compared to the JM than it already is.

[SgtMagor]

Quickdraw, has the agility of an assault, if I'm understanding this correctly. Qd is supposed to be able to jump like a light mech, and run like a medium. this just doesn't sound right...

[Butane9000]

I agree with this change 100%. It'll be nice to know assault mechs can't just role up walls and will now have to take different routes. It's also definitely going to change how maps are played.

As well as being a huge buff to jump jet usefulness.

[Asmosis]

only thing i care about:

Do other mechs count as a vertical surface? because they should. If the days of driving through other mechs can be solved with this im all for it.

Krzysztof z Bagien, on 27 June 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

Right now there are some places where you can climb up, but when you stop you start sliding down. I assume with those new rules we will be able to stop halfway up the hill and not slide back down, right?
Also - while I'm not convinced mechs should go down faster, they should definitely have better acceleration while going down.

Edit: one more thing: to everyone who uses "chicken leg" term - do you realise that chickens' legs, as well as other birds', work exactly like human's legs?
No animal has knees that can bend backwards, they only bend forwards just the same as human knees. What appear to be knees bending backwards is actually the ankle joint.

generally these surfaces are >45 degrees, so no you wont slide down them because you can't get up them in the first place. I'd assume this is actually part of what this change is to address.

Edited by Asmosis, 27 June 2013 - 06:07 PM.

[Brunor]

I think this sounds good. Having noticed a couple of responses like:

StalaggtIKE, on 27 June 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

Edit: 45 degree as an impassable slope is a bit small. I suggest bumping up a bit; 80 degrees perhaps.

, I think 45 degrees is a fine stopping point. In orienteering, anything over 45 degrees is classed as a cliff; anything over (IIRC) 35 as a steep slope. One maths teacher who was into tramping recommended not walking up anything steeper than 28 (maybe 26) degrees unaided. While I have certainly run up 40 degree hills before, to do so without using my arms I would look for small flaws in the slope - steps - to tread on, which is a bit of a hard task for a giant robot. Walking up such slopes is easier than running up them, and not just because I don't put the effort into speed.

As others have noted, running downhill puts a lot of stress on knees and invites tripping over. In my experience I spend effort that I could otherwise put into forward motion into retarding my speed and keeping my balance.

[Trev Firestorm]

Definitely something that needed fixing, now just get collisions fully functional and you'll really have something.

[Otto Cannon]

[Syrkres]

The Strange, on 27 June 2013 - 01:27 PM, said:

Your answer was right in the thread if you just looked for it.

See but the problem is if you take (what you quoted as the answer) "Because of the extra big shoulders of the missile boxes, and the very long nose, the catapult would need to be in a larger capsule category than the heavier Cataphract.".

You would think the STALKER - similar in shape to the Catapult, would also logically be in a LARGER capsule category then a heavier mech. SO why is it in a lower category...?

Again how did they make these categories?...

[Grayseven]

I'm going to assume that the actual tonnage of a mech is not the only criteria for where it ends up on the "slope meter"?

There is so much lore available about the different mech types that sifting through it all to figure out things like "slope climbing ability" would be a chore that I assume the PGI team undertook. That would explain some of the choices for which mech's fall where on the list that may not make sense to the rest of us.

Overall, it's a nice change. It will make jump jets more necessary in some cases as well as mech speed becoming more important in some instances. It'll definitely change the dynamics of some maps.

As far as down slope speed up, anyone who has run full speed down a hill can attest to the fact that sometimes it is all you can do to stay on your feet and if you "let go" and go beyond a "safe speed" you lose control and will most likely end up on your keister. I think the straight line slide we've experienced in Alpine is the right way to do this as it would be all the mech's gyros could do just to keep the mech standing without throwing in turns...

...until fall down/tumble physics are added into the game anyway.