522 replies to this topic

[Monsoon]

Gotta say, I'm excited to see these changes implemented!

It'll certainly force me to drive my Cicada with more care, and it'll make Jump Jets even more valuable.

I can't wait to try out Canyon Map, that should make for one hell of a new experience!

[Monsoon]

p00k, on 29 June 2013 - 09:13 AM, said:

more hilarious will be all the places that mechs get stuck in each other due to a half-implemented collision system combined with these slope issues. it already happens in a few places on alpine and canyon, and i have absolutely zero faith that pgi will be able to resolve this.

especially considering these issues have been around as long as the maps have been (few months now for alpine), yet pgi hasn't bothered to even look at them. ******* pathetic

And yet with your 'absolutely zero faith' in PGI, here you are month after month playing the game. Somehow I think you have faith, you just don't want to admit it. Otherwise, why are you bothering to play a game for months on end, for which you have no faith or respect? Sadism? Masochistic?

Edited by Monsoon, 29 June 2013 - 11:02 AM.

[shotokan5]

It shows a positive step toward simulation not arcade. No one has said that the maps can not be changed in some areas. This is a work in progress and will be hopefully for a long time. Change is good, learn to adapt to it. They usually come up with the right answer even if it takes them some time. That why input is so important. Oh, JJ don't leave home without them.

[Khobai]

This change has potential to make mechs without JJ completely useless.

[Ordate]

Khobai, on 29 June 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

This change has potential to make mechs without JJ completely useless.

Useless????? Hahaha good joke! Don't worry I'm sure your ac40 will be just fine. The only thing this will do is make jjs more desirable. You still wont need them you just have to think a bit more.

[Khobai]

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Useless????? Hahaha good joke! Don't worry I'm sure your ac40 will be just fine. The only thing this will do is make jjs more desirable. You still wont need them you just have to think a bit more.

Yes useless. Atlases that already go 48kph, will slow down even more on 20 degree inclines? That is laughable... like going 48kph wasnt detrimental enough. There will literally be no reason not to use a Highlander/Victor instead. Jumpjets were already amazing and now they will be even moreso. Mechs with high-mounted weapons also benefit greatly from this change because they'll have a much bigger advantage over mechs with low-mounted weapons if both mechs suffer movement penalties when cresting over hills.

If something like this is implemented there had better be a module added that makes going up inclines easier. Otherwise the meta is going to shift even more towards mechs with jumpjets and/or high-mounted weapons than it already has.

Quote

Don't worry I'm sure your ac40 will be just fine.

It doesnt really hurt AC/40 mechs like the Jager because their guns are mounted high up. It hurts mechs like the Atlas which have low mounted guns and have to fully crest a hill before being able to fire. Because now youre exposed for a much longer period of time before you can return fire.

Edited by Khobai, 29 June 2013 - 03:13 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I highly doubt this change will render the Stalkers and JagerMechs useless... unless they were on the verge of uselessness prior to this change, in which case it'd be kinda odd considering that they're integral parts of the current "combat meta."

[Disapirro]

Khobai, on 29 June 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

Yes useless. Atlases that already go 48kph, will slow down even more on 20 degree inclines? That is laughable... like going 48kph wasnt detrimental enough. There will literally be no reason not to use a Highlander/Victor instead. Jumpjets were already amazing and now they will be even moreso. Mechs with high-mounted weapons also benefit greatly from this change because they'll have a much bigger advantage over mechs with low-mounted weapons if both mechs suffer movement penalties when cresting over hills.

Really, your big fatlass is useless cause it goes slow and you have to chose your route better. I play lights, and it is about darn time JJ and maneuverability had some role in this game. [/color]

Edited by Disapirro, 29 June 2013 - 04:42 PM.

[Hexenhammer]

A quick comment.

Get ready for the **** storm of complaints when this goes into effect

And I wonder how many players will quit because of the movement changes, we all know it will happen.

[Monsoon]

Hexenhammer, on 29 June 2013 - 05:16 PM, said:

A quick comment.

Get ready for the **** storm of complaints when this goes into effect

And I wonder how many players will quit because of the movement changes, we all know it will happen.

If people are going to leave over this, then I say too bad. Because many, many of us came here looking for a Simulation game, not a action FPS. To us, this is just the beginning, water impacting speed will definitely have to be addressed in the next round of Movement Behaviour adjustments. Personally, I hope those people stay and embrace a more realistic feel that these changes will bring.

P.S. I say this as a primarily Heavy/Assault pilot. Yes, it'll mean piloting my Cataphract and Atlas will be more of a pain, but that'll also mean more immersion for me, as running up steep inclines without any loss of speed, was always ridiculous.

Edited by Monsoon, 29 June 2013 - 08:20 PM.

[Renaissance]

I think these changes are a positive step in the right direction and will make the same tired maps with different weather and day/night settings given new life to make us temporarily forget they're the same tired maps with different weather and day/night settings through gameplay. It gives me more reason to buy a Highlander or a Victor, and jumpjet capability is going to be something I'm going to have to look at more closely in regards to maps and my playstyle. To me, this is something I should have been doing for over a year now, which brings me to...

Monsoon, on 29 June 2013 - 08:18 PM, said:

To us, this is just the beginning...

... except this isn't just the beginning. I've been here for over a year, just as you have. I know that magic wands can't be waved and stuff happens to MWO. I know it takes dedicated and skilled labor for large periods of time to do things with this game. That said... it's still been over a year for both of us, and we're just now getting the part of the game where steep inclines can't be traversed and jump jets are just now becoming more integral to gameplay.

... did I mention we still have the same tired maps, too? Am I expected to wait for another year for the invisible terrain in Tourmaline Desert to be removed so I can stop wasting heat build-up and precious ammo trying to hit the bad guy through a wall that doesn't exist?

I know I've gotten a lot more cynical lately, and I should be grateful for what is being done now instead of being ungrateful for it not being done earlier... but these new terrain changes give me a bittersweet taste in my mouth. It's good that mobility is going to be even more important and enforce players to actually think where they go if they're in an assault mech without jj's...

... but it's bad because I think this is just going to delay more maps that are desperately desired and needed in order to adjust currently existing maps over the next several months (or years) to 'balance' them in order to legitimately solve issues that were not there before the movement behavior changes... or to cater to whiners who can't adapt to change and demand in a cacophany that maps be adjusted to make it easier for them.

Because let's face it... we will be seeing the current maps we've been playing for over a year being worked on and adjusted to factor into unforeseen changes with this movement behavior 'fix'. That's development hours not spent on creating brand new maps for us to chew on.

Edited by Renaissance, 29 June 2013 - 10:39 PM.

[Marmon Rzohr]

I like this, must be said

It should bring new tactics to the table and make in-game strategies more intuitive and, probably, more varied. It will take some getting used to.

The things I could suggest is this:

- Add climbable sections to the walls in Canyon Network (like the little "gaps" mechs to use to climb before the change). Limiting most mechs to the use of the large "ramps" on the map will, IMHO, significatly diminish the dynamic of this map. This specific "up & down" dynamic that CN had made it one of the most enjoyable maps to play because you could always traverse the map in interesting ways and that made it fun. Granted, this in not very realistic given the topology of real canyons, but it was nonetheless fun.
A bit of realism might be worth sacrificing for some extra fun

CN will still be imho the best map yet, even with these changes, but it might be worth considering if it is best idea to make a single map extremely jump-favorable because of the predominance of steep walls and to diminish CN's rapid trench warfare style for a more sedate tactical situation which reduces the map to a large very twisty road with walls on the sides (given no JJs).

All in all very interesting change. Can't wait to see it in action.

[MustrumRidcully]

The slowdown angle numbers seem pretty arbitrary, but other than that, this will certainly change a lot about how the game is played.

[GateKeeper York]

will you be able to tack up a slop?

[Koniving]

DeathofSelf, on 27 June 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

Looking at the maps (specifically caustic valley) it would appear that the pipes running around the cooling pools (near one of the spawns) are red (not passable). If I remember correctly they are pretty low to the ground and it wouldn't make much sense if we couldn't walk over them.

The ones in the ground, yes. The ones high above the ground are hip-high against an Awesome.

[Khobai]

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it is about darn time JJ and maneuverability had some role in this game

What are you talking about? JJ and maneuverability are already vastly superior to armor when it comes to staying alive. and now theyre going to be even better.

Quote

running up steep inclines without any loss of speed, was always ridiculous.

I mostly agree with that. But in the tabletop game, the tradeoff for assaults not being able to go up steep inclines, was that they had way more armor and firepower than anything else. But Atlases only get 2 more hardpoints than Jenners... which is pathetic. And speed has always been better than armor in this game, which is the complete opposite of tabletop.

This change makes sense from a simulation standpoint. But from a balance standpoint its a complete mess. It really is going to make non-jumpjet assaults useless on certain maps, notably canyon and alpine. To implement something like this without the ability to choose what mechs you play on particular maps is just bad.

Edited by Khobai, 30 June 2013 - 05:41 PM.

[Dirus Nigh]

+2 movement implemented for elevation change. Got it. I like that the devs are implementing changes that make the terrain more dynamic. However I do have suggestions and questions.

If there is a movement penalty for going up hill their should be a corresponding speed boost going down hill. With some consequences of it's own. Like deceleration, and turn rate reduced when "running" down hill.

If I chose to walk/run up the slop at an angle, say 45 degrees will the speed reduction be lessened? By not taking the slope head on I am lowing the angle of the slope.

Can I have a mountain climbing module for my commando? It should contain 800m of braided cable, 20 rail road spike sized pitons, a harness, two climbing picks, a hammer, and grappling hook.

Can I have new equipment for my commando? A powered winch that is placed on a new winch hard point in the CT. Two tons one crit slot. It will fire a hook or spike out to 600m in an arc. Then lift the mech up at 25% movement speed.

Edited by Dirus Nigh, 30 June 2013 - 11:54 AM.

[SteelJaws]

Now if we could get the Jump Jets tweaked so they worked more like they were in TT, or atleast just better than what they are now, instead of having all mechs jump 20-25 meters.

[TOGSolid]

Why is the Jenner being listed as a tiny mech? It weighs 35 tons (same as the Raven) , has jump jets, hits like a truck for its size, and is very fast. It needs to be categorized as a small mech. There is no reason to buff the Jenner even more by making it count as a tiny mech.

[Dirus Nigh]

TOGSolid, on 30 June 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

Why is the Jenner being listed as a tiny mech? It weighs 35 tons (same as the Raven) , has jump jets, hits like a truck for its size, and is very fast. It needs to be categorized as a small mech. There is no reason to buff the Jenner even more by making it count as a tiny mech.

Considering how the legs of the jenner and raven work, they should have their classifications swapped.

edit.
rereading the movement classifications. The dragon, jagermech, and cataphract should be moved into the heavy category. While the quickdraw moved down to medium.

Edited by Dirus Nigh, 30 June 2013 - 01:30 PM.