147 replies to this topic

[Karazyr]

oh my, i admit a good light pilot is hard to take down, but they are easy to kill if they screw up, for example: i was in my faithful spider 5d armed with a LL and 2x ML, did my normal job of getting behind mechs and pew pewing them, then i turned a corner into 2 jagers and died instantly.

[BillyM]

Pinpoint damage still hits hard, but lasers or SRM's may as well just pack it up and head home vs lights (commando and spider are bad, jenner and cicada are only marginally better). ...I'd rather turn a corner in my SRM-Cent9A and face two assaults than a pair of Spiders...

--billyM

[SuperJoe]

Lights shouldn't be able to use anything beyond a standard 100 engine imo. They're way way too fast for me to shoot with my trackball mouse.

[Koniving]

PEEFsmash, on 27 June 2013 - 09:45 PM, said:

Wait...your second highest KDR is 132 kills and 330 deaths? That is not a .95kdr....

Had copy/pasted the Raven's win/loss ratio.
198 to 215 at 0.92 these days and I haven't fielded it or other lights much in this meta. It's suicide.

[Koniving]

Oh it's not so much a hit detection issue with Spiders. It's where you hit them. The large ballistic weapons like AC/20s and PPCs, if they hit in between the side and center torso, the damage goes into a black hole as there seems to be a gap of sorts. However with any weapon to include AC/20s and PPCs, I haven't got a problem hitting spiders unless the shot goes smack at the 'line' for side and center torso. The solution? If you can't deliberately hit either just the side or center torso then I recommend you go for their legs. Very easy to hit with a well timed shot and typically it's one shot (AC/40) and they limp. The laser and/or MG variants tend to take a second shot.

----

And yes, I know that's technically an issue where your hit doesn't register; but that isn't so much hit detection or net code, but an issue with the hit boxes.

Edited by Koniving, 14 July 2013 - 07:06 PM.

[aniviron]

BillyM, on 14 July 2013 - 06:33 PM, said:

Pinpoint damage still hits hard, but lasers or SRM's may as well just pack it up and head home vs lights (commando and spider are bad, jenner and cicada are only marginally better). ...I'd rather turn a corner in my SRM-Cent9A and face two assaults than a pair of Spiders...

--billyM

I'd argue that point for lasers- the HBK-4P is my premiere light killer, even better than my 3L. If your aim is steady and you are careful with your shots, medium lasers will absolutely wreck any light foolish enough to close within 270m.

As far as SRMs, they might as well just pack up and go home, period right now. I need to start Frapsing again; if I had one MC for every time I fired 12+ srms into the back of an atlas moving at less than 30kph from under 50m and got no hit damage or crosshair color change, I could afford to buy the Dragon Slayer. So yes, the fact that SRMs are terrible against lights is unsurprising, and not really an argument for lights being too survivable right now.

[Kenyon Burguess]

w0rm, on 27 June 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

Yes whats wrong is that lights pretty much instadie when they meet my AC40 (in case the shots register; silly HSR).

death happens frequently in my spider, so much so that I actively avoid ac40 builds and keep a min distance of 500m for the LRM boats. same for the ppc boats. I don't know what the data on HSR involved misses are, but I get hit a lot

[Tander09]

there is one thing about light mech pilots i despise.. and its circleing very slow mech and YOU CANT DO A THING ABOUT IT. THERE SHOULD BE A WAY TO COMBAT THIS LIGHT MECH TACTIC

[FupDup]

Tander09, on 14 July 2013 - 07:27 PM, said:

there is one thing about light mech pilots i despise.. and its circleing very slow mech and YOU CANT DO A THING ABOUT IT. THERE SHOULD BE A WAY TO COMBAT THIS LIGHT MECH TACTIC

If they use the circle dance, just turn in the opposite direction that they are and alpha them when your aim is aligned with them. Also, moving in reverse lets you turn faster than moving forward. Try to find a wall to back up in to to keep your rear safe. While they are behind you, twist around to spread out their damage.

Honestly, the circle dance is hilariously easy to deal with. Even a Stalker can turn/twist pretty damn fast. There isn't much of an excuse for not being able to deal with lights.

Edited by FupDup, 14 July 2013 - 07:33 PM.

[Deathlike]

Most of the time, it has a lot to the guy (in the assault) doing a poor job of responding to it, than a deficiency of the mech itself... although, it can be relatively annoying and slow/painful.

Edited by Deathlike, 14 July 2013 - 07:38 PM.

[Gaan Cathal]

Tander09, on 14 July 2013 - 07:27 PM, said:

there is one thing about light mech pilots i despise.. and its circleing very slow mech and YOU CANT DO A THING ABOUT IT. THERE SHOULD BE A WAY TO COMBAT THIS LIGHT MECH TACTIC

As a light mech pilot, I'll give you a hint.

There is.

[Jman5]

Statistically, lights are fine. Their weapons, armor, and speed are fine. The only issue is that network/lag/HSR issues make it harder than it should to land your shots on fast moving mechs. Also for whatever reason the spider appears to be even buggier.

I can't use my SRMs on them unless they are running straight toward me, or stopped.

Paul Inouye:

Quote

Many of you have cited hit detection errors. We’re seeing this as well. While it happens across almost all Mechs, it’s most noticeable with small Mech chassis. Bumping damage is going to help deal a small amount more damage to small Mechs, but the larger Mechs are going to be destroyed VERY quickly. We are investigating the root cause of these detection errors but it’s a deep problem. We need to find out if it’s in HSR (host state rewind) or is it in the simulation running on the server etc etc. Once found we will be pouring heavy resources on to the problem to fix it ASAP. However, I can tell you this, it’s going to take a while to find due to its complexity.

[Deathlike]

I have kinda noticed that the effect is a bit erratic. If you are on any sort of incline and moving, your shot is more likely to not hit where it should if not outright miss on the flashing paperdoll. If you are on flat ground, it is very unlikely the damage misses. I think the same goes for the targeted mech to some degree.

Also, it boggles my mind how you can disable ECM temporarily from a mech, yet not damage it... and vice versa happens sometimes, but not as often.

Edited by Deathlike, 14 July 2013 - 09:08 PM.

[Funckadelic Mayhem]

i loled.... Lights are way 2 easy to kill. Just because they have the speed to hit and run and not kiss you like every mech does in the game you want pgi to make your suck be good? "boo hoo I cant get in the face of a light and pew pew they are 2 fast"

LOL NO WAY! Thank god PGI will never listen to a thread like this one! If you dont like it go play the other game where you pilot refrigerators, TV's and hot water heaters on meth-fuel.

Edited by Funckadelic Mayhem, 14 July 2013 - 09:17 PM.

[MasterErrant]

the hit detection thin can be staggering. i've seen a spider in the middle of a circle of five mechs getting alphaed with doxens of hits and not even losing and armour color level. I've presonally hit a light with fouteen salvos of 3Streaks at close range in a circlejerk wit not effective damage. Not even considering several hits of ERLL (()
kph Pretty Basby vs 110 kph raven) hew was killed by tow lrm boats assisting me late in the battle. but I got one torso yellow before the fired. And these were the "Dreaded" and "Massively OP" streaks...lol.

[Theodor Kling]

William Mountbank, on 28 June 2013 - 02:13 AM, said:

Sorry, I do understand that it is frustrating to assault pilots that they have trouble hitting the smallest profile mech with their pinpoint weapons, but some of what you see is a technical issue that there is no solution for beyond making the Spider hitboxes larger than the mech itself, or reducing the max engine size, which seems to be a way of punishing players who already have to deal with a low damage output and low armour chassis.
When I get hit by an AC40, I can tell you my Spider goes to damaged internals from full armour. Everything else is a 100% miss for pinpoint weapons, surely?

Also, PC online gaming used to be a gentleman's game? I'm pretty sure I recall trolling in Doom2.

Yeah hit registration is ..problematic. Like with SRM dmg I think lights survivability can only really be discussed after we got a working game where people are where you see them ( already better), and hits are are hits ( and misses are misses).
This is not just a light mech issue, although it seems to show more there. A few days ago everything indicated that I had been hit by at least one PPC ( and who uses ONE PPC? so it must have benn several) in my Centurion, paperdoll flashed..and that was it. No dmg seemed to register.

krolmir, on 28 June 2013 - 04:12 AM, said:

Light mechs are fine, if your patient enough to pic your shots. That's the problem with most pilots on an assault, they get frustrated, start alpha'ing trying to one shot kill the light, than they overheat, and then they pay for it. [...]

Yes, that's pretty funny sometimes. Once I even had this with my Jäger vs a PPC Stalker. Despite my glorious 54kph he managed to miss me several times, always all out alpha and overheated. This repeated a few times and by the time my lonely MPL chewed through his back armour his internals were already read from overheat damage

And before anyone coes with: Play higher elo and that won't happen: Of course it won´t. The same Jäger got PPC sniped from about 1km into the head just 2 matches before that... but this inconsistency is a match making issue, so off topic here.

[Kagdoom]

Spider hit detection is pretty obviously broken (Australian ping though), commando I'm not sure since I see fewer... not so much the larger and boxier lights.

Edited by Kagdoom, 14 July 2013 - 10:11 PM.

[TOGSolid]

How survivable light mechs are is entirely dependent on how kind the HSR is feeling at that moment.

(The answer is usually not very)

Much like the last damn time we had problems with lag shields, any issues with lights will go away once the hit detection is fixed. All you can do for now is to pack some lasers around to cut the legs out from under the lights, take some streaks, or sacrifice a chicken and pray to Mecha-Jesus that your shots are allowed to connect. Sacrificing a chicken in the process may help.

Edited by TOGSolid, 14 July 2013 - 10:40 PM.

[Corvus Antaka]

stjobe, on 14 July 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

The few, the proud, the borderline psychotic.

Damn few of us left.

Commandos forever!

[William Mountbank]

Just to reiterate for the light-haters:

If you take your 3PPC/Gauss Highlander and shoot your 45 damage alpha at a Spider and miss, you just did zero damage - even if you think you were aiming correctly. Maybe he moved at the last minute, maybe you didn't compensate for projectile travel, maybe convergence meant everything went wide on both sides. It wasn't the netcode or screwy hitboxes, it was you and your choice of weapon loadout.

The Spider is incredibly thin, with lanky limbs and torso - it represents a pretty small amount of pixels to hit. To compensate for this advantage it has the lowest damage output of all mechs and is the weakest mech vs other lights, mediums or just any other mechs mounting lasers and SSRMs.
The best way to pilot a Spider is stay behind a mountain before jumping out and hitting an assault in the back. And mountains maketh the mech invincible.

Maybe you'll be happy when clantech arrives - doesn't the Madcat have rear facing missilepods?