147 replies to this topic

[Dude42]

When I can take a commando and do 100 damage with a flamer, there might be a problem with hit detection. Let me know when we get to that point.

Oh wait...

Spoiler

Speaking as a light pilot, I do believe there are some HSR, hit registration, lost damage type issues going on. I get hit with way too much **** and live. The only weapons that do not seem to suffer are Gauss and AC shells(well...and streaks). Even PPCs don't seem to actually do their full damage at top speed. When I play against light pilots I'm able to leg them pretty easily in general, but I know to use my ACs(really, its the only reason I carry them so often, reliable damage vs fast moving mechs, because laser beams and PPCs don't register reliably), or pull them in front a friendly mech that has ACs, any size. If you play as a light pilot and honestly think you everyone else has such poor aim with laser beams that they can't focus a LL on you at 600m no matter which direction you're running, then you're deluding yourself.

And here's one of the same mech, just with 3 MLs instead of 3 flamers.

Edited by Dude42, 28 June 2013 - 03:09 PM.

[Hansh0tfirst]

Light mech survivability is too great? Compared to what, an unarmored Stalker with an XL engine and six flamers??

[Corvus Antaka]

as in 4 ppc can strip a leg in 1 shot ? or 2 ac 20?

[aniviron]

Razorfish, on 27 June 2013 - 08:47 PM, said:

You know nothing about me, my knowledge, or my skill. But I can make a lot of assumptions about your intelligence based on your post.
I stand by my previous statement. Light mechs are the current “I win” button.
Being hard to hit because you have a lag shield does not make you skilled.
Being hard to hit because you are going fast does not make you skilled.
Being hard to hit because hitreg is screwed up does not make you skilled.

Yeah, lights are an easy I-Win button for sure. That's why in most of the matches I play there are 14 lights and only one or two heavies or assaults.

[BookWyrm]

I felt like reviving this thread just so I could laugh at it.

[King Arthur IV]

revived and spiders armor is broken right now.

[Angel of Annihilation]

I probable already commented in here somewhere but since it has been revived.

Yes I think lights are a bit overpowered in general due to their survivability. However them being over powered might be the only thing that makes them competitive.

I know that doesn't make a lot of sense so let me try to explain. If light mechs weren't OPed no one would play them because other mechs would just offer better rewards to play. This is because the role of a light mech is recon and quick strikes on lightly defended targets with maybe a little harrassment thrown in. MWO doesn't have big enough maps to really make recon relevant and no lightly defended targets like infantry or supply dumps. That leave direct mech-to-mech combat where they usually have a major disadvantage in damage output especially compared to heavies and assaults. To offest the damage disadvantage, they have high survivability.

Keep in mind, that most of the fire directed at a light mech, misses and in general I spend 3-4 times as long taking out a light mech as I would a Assault mech just due to missing and inability to concentrate damage due to speed and small size. Then add in double armor on top that so when I do hit, that hit is often trivalized into not doing enough damage to really even hurt the light mech and you have OPed survivabilty compared to most other mechs which can't avoid getting hit.

Prime example, a Jenner in Battletech mounts 64 armor total. In MWO it can mount over 200. In Battletech a single PPC shot or would likely cripple a Jenner. In MWO it takes a Quad PPC shot to do the same thing, i.e. 4x more firepower.

[stjobe]

Viktor Drake, on 14 July 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

Yes I think lights are a bit overpowered in general due to their survivability.

Not that I disagree with your points, but anyone uttering that sentence needs to drop a few times in a light. They do not have "survivability" to the point of being "a bit overpowered". Their speed and maneuverability makes them hard to hit, and therefore frustrating for the average heavy pilot whose aim is much better in their head than in reality.

In actual play, if it wasn't for speed and maneuverability and people's general lack of ability to hit a barn from the inside, lights would be impossible to play at all.

[YueFei]

I've seen weird HSR hit registration issues. One time I legged a spider with 2 shots of AC20+4MLas, then watched as he hopped up and down in one place only 100 meters in front of me, and my next 3 shots did nothing to him.

In the end a teammate strolled up from another side and removed the other leg for the kill.

[stjobe]

YueFei, on 14 July 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

I've seen weird HSR hit registration issues. One time I legged a spider with 2 shots of AC20+4MLas, then watched as he hopped up and down in one place only 100 meters in front of me, and my next 3 shots did nothing to him.

In the end a teammate strolled up from another side and removed the other leg for the kill.

Yes, there are hit registration issues, at least with the Spider. Does that mean *lights* are OP, or does it mean the Spider is bugged?

People throw around the term "overpowered" for anything that kills them. As a light pilot for the last year I can only say that lights have never been harder to drop in than they are at the moment. HSR, while a good thing, enabled good shots to one-shot lights. The 35-45 point long-range pin-point alpha meta isn't fun when your (maxed-out) CT has 40 points total armour and internal structure.

So again, please: If you think lights are overpowered, buy a Commando and do ten drops. Then come back here and tell us if you still think "lights" are overpowered.

Edited by stjobe, 14 July 2013 - 02:00 PM.

[BillyM]

...who the heck runs commando's? SPIDERS man, spiders!

"If you think PPC's are overpowered, buy an awesome and do ten drops."

"If you think mediums are overpowered, buy a flamer blackjack and do ten drops."

--billyM

[Angel of Annihilation]

stjobe, on 14 July 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

Not that I disagree with your points, but anyone uttering that sentence needs to drop a few times in a light. They do not have "survivability" to the point of being "a bit overpowered". Their speed and maneuverability makes them hard to hit, and therefore frustrating for the average heavy pilot whose aim is much better in their head than in reality.

In actual play, if it wasn't for speed and maneuverability and people's general lack of ability to hit a barn from the inside, lights would be impossible to play at all.

My Founders Mech is a Jenner so I do drop in light mechs fairly often. Also like I said, they kind of need to be overpowered to encourge people to play them because the game doesn't give them the right missions to excell at otherwise.

This doesn't change the fact that in general a light mech is several times harder to kill than an Assault mech. I mean I can pretty much land both my LLs, both my MLs and my SRMs 90% of the time into the CT of an Atlas, even with us both moving. On a light mech I am lucky to manage 4-8 points of damage scattered all across the mech for the same investment in heat and firepower unless I get lucky.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 14 July 2013 - 02:19 PM.

[stjobe]

Viktor Drake, on 14 July 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

This doesn't change the fact that in general a light mech is several times harder to kill than an Assault mech. I mean I can pretty much land both my LLs, both my MLs and my SRMs 90% of the time into the CT of an Atlas, even with us both moving. On a light mech I am lucky to manage 4-8 points of damage scattered all across the mech for the same investment in heat and firepower unless I get lucky.

That's not a fact, that's your opinion. It's based on your experience and skill.

And frankly, if you find lights "several times harder to kill than an Assault mech", I seriously wonder about both that experience and skill.

I mean hell, the whole upper part of most lights have less armour than the leg of an Assault. If you manage to hit them, they die. If they don't die, it means you need to work on your aiming, positioning, or situational awareness. I'll grant that the Spider currently seems bugged with regard to hit registration, but other than that, it's all you.

[Corvus Antaka]

aniviron, on 29 June 2013 - 11:30 PM, said:

Yeah, lights are an easy I-Win button for sure. That's why in most of the matches I play there are 14 lights and only one or two heavies or assaults.

haha

[stjobe]

BillyM, on 14 July 2013 - 02:06 PM, said:

...who the heck runs commando's?

The few, the proud, the borderline psychotic.

Damn few of us left.

[Deathlike]

stjobe, on 14 July 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

The few, the proud, the borderline psychotic.

Damn few of us left.

I feel bad that the Commando is a lot more squishy than the Spider.

Spiders put up a chase.. the Commando... is Streak PPC fodder.

Edited by Deathlike, 14 July 2013 - 02:59 PM.

[stjobe]

Deathlike, on 14 July 2013 - 02:59 PM, said:

I feel bad that the Commando is a lot more squishy than the Spider.

Spiders put up a chase.. the Commando... is Streak PPC fodder.

PPCs I can avoid most of the time, but Streaks? Yeah, I try to stay 270m away from those CT-coring, balance-destroying hell-things. Nothing like missiles that instead of missing you spins circles around you a few times before impacting your CT 180 degrees off from where they were fired from.

Real good coding there, cowboy.

[Training Instructor]

I play lights, and I have a crappy connection. When people alpha me, I take the damage most of the time. When I"m in an assault or heavy and I alpha a light right in front of me, they rarely take a fraction of the damage they should.


PGIs netcode is still terrible, and it has only gotten worse over the past three months.

[Takony]

It'***** detection/registration issue, mostly on Spiders, sometimes other lights as well. Sometimes I oneshot a light, sometimes it eats 3 or more dead-on alphas from AC40 and barely any armor damage. Hitting them is not that hard. Praying to total RNG that the hit actually registers is hard. Also, comically, this is one factor why high damage pinpoint alpha is the only effective way: when it hits, it gives results. Whereas if you want to play this RNG hit detection game with dps weapons, even if you hit AND inflict damage, it's negligible.

[ApolloKaras]

I love my lights. My K/D's are modest in these little guys, 1.25, and the highest being 3.24 (JR7-F), the one that I take damage the least in is my Spider. Its also of no consequence that the hardest light for me to kill is the spider. I believe I average at least 3 - 5 shots more to kill a spider than any other mech. Jenners / Commandos / Ravens I can usually connect with on the first shot and keep going, spiders on the other hand... eh....

The thing with lights is that people lose sight of the role. the light is a hit and run mech, it is to attack from the shadows and if you have the upper hand THEN you pounce. In the hands of a good pilot the light can be just as strong as an assault.

The light is the most unforgiving machine if you make a mistake. I would have to disagree with the OP. If you make a mistake against a good shot - you're dead. If you make a mistake as an assault you can at least torso twist spread the damage around and return fire. The light you don't have that luxury. I don't believe the lights are op in any way at all. You can already get one shotted, I would be interested to see how you would lower the survivability, lessen the armor?