50 replies to this topic

[Sarsaparilla Kid]

Well, even with CyberGhost activated, I'm getting disconnected. Here's my pingplotter results for today showing huge packet loss and latency. Without CyberGhost, I'm getting sub-100ms latency, but up to 10% packet loss at the same Internap node, which is still enough to kick me out of a match.

[Nonsequitur]

Looks like Internap really needs to optimize it's border routers....

[FREDtheDEAD]

That or they'e under such load they're dropping ICMP echo requests in favour of UDP and or TCP packets. It doesn't bode well.
http://mwomercs.com/...in/page__st__60 has a lot more info in this area.

[Havok1978]

ping jitter? latency measured in millisecs? wtf are yall even talking about?
latency is measured in a percentage, ping is measured in a delay time, is ping jitter = latency?

guys, yall need to stop making up words and terms here.. use the proper term for what you are talking about, not becuse im trying to be literal and etc but becuse it does matter.

If you tell a technician, my problem is "A" and he fixes "A", but you really meant "B".. then your problem is not only uncorrected, but you now have a problem with "A"...

the problems we are having across the board in this thread is due to Latency, has nothing to do with ping at this point...
ping is the speed of your signal.. in laymans terms... latency is the consistency and quality of said signal...

example: a phone conversation over a 4G network is fast, but "if" its full of static, then its fast static and sounds like crap...
thats your; packet loss,malformed packets,bad cables,bad switch,bad router,bad plug head.. could be any of those things will cause latency, even heat can do it..

my money is on PGI having a bad DSLAM near them we are being routed thru

Edited by Havok1978, 01 July 2013 - 11:21 AM.

[DragonsFire]

Havok1978, on 01 July 2013 - 11:17 AM, said:

ping jitter? latency measured in millisecs? wtf are yall even talking about?
latency is measured in a percentage, ping is measured in a delay time, is ping jitter = latency?

guys, yall need to stop making up words and terms here.. use the proper term for what you are talking about, not becuse im trying to be literal and etc but becuse it does matter.

If you tell a technician, my problem is "A" and he fixes "A", but you really meant "B".. then your problem is not only uncorrected, but you now have a problem with "A"...

the problems we are having across the board in this thread is due to Latency, has nothing to do with ping at this point...
ping is the speed of your signal.. in laymans terms... latency is the consistency and quality of said signal...

example: a phone conversation over a 4G network is fast, but "if" its full of static, then its fast static and sounds like crap...
thats your; packet loss,malformed packets,bad cables,bad switch,bad router,bad plug head.. could be any of those things will cause latency, even heat can do it..

my money is on PGI having a bad DSLAM near them we are being routed thru

The latency you are referring to, in terms of audio quality, is certainly the correct definition in that context.

In the context of networking, ping and traceroute are deterministic tools to help baseline expected latency, and evaluate possible problem points in the network path where latency has increased due to various factors.

Either way, the message is still the same as to the overall apparent latency issue, although I would wager that unless PGI is hosting their servers behind DSL modems, there isn't a DSLAM involved in this case.  

Edited by DragonsFire, 01 July 2013 - 12:14 PM.

[Sarsaparilla Kid]

Let's review some definitions then, per Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia....cy_vs_Bandwidth
"Performance measures

The following measures are often considered important:

• Bandwidth commonly measured in bits/second is the maximum rate that information can be transferred
  
• Throughput the actual rate that information is transferred
  
• Latency the delay between the sender and the receiver decoding it, this is mainly a function of the signals travel time, and processing time at any nodes the information traverses
  
• Jitter variation in the time of arrival at the receiver of the information
  
• Error rate the number of corrupted bits expressed as a percentage or fraction of the total sent

A common misunderstanding is that having greater throughput means a "faster" connection. However, throughput, latency, the type of information transmitted, and the way that information is applied all affect the perceived speed of a connection."

And : http://en.wikipedia....king_utility%29

"Ping is a computer network administration utility used to test the reachability of a host on an Internet Protocol (IP) network and to measure the round-trip time for messages sent from the originating host to a destination computer. The name comes from active sonar terminology which sends a pulse of sound and listens for the echo to detect objects underwater.^[1]
Ping operates by sending Internet Control Message Protocol (ICMP) echo request packets to the target host and waiting for an ICMP response. In the process it measures the time from transmission to reception (round-trip time)^[1] and records any packet loss. The results of the test are printed in the form of a statistical summary of the response packets received, including the minimum, maximum, and the mean round-trip times, and sometimes the standard deviation of the mean. Ping does not evaluate or compute the time to establish the connection; it only gives the mean round-trip times of an established connection with an open session."

[Havok1978]

DragonsFire, on 01 July 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

The latency you are referring to, in terms of audio quality, is certainly the correct definition in that context.

In the context of networking, ping and traceroute are deterministic tools to help baseline expected latency, and evaluate possible problem points in the network path where latency has increased due to various factors.

Either way, the message is still the same as to the overall apparent latency issue, although I would wager that unless PGI is hosting their servers behind DSL modems, there isn't a DSLAM involved in this case.

PGI doesnt have to own the DSLAM, it could be that it is in a route TO PGI, which is what I said in the first place... PGI isnt an ISP or telecommunications company, they dont own DSLAM's

http://www.webopedia...RM/D/DSLAM.html

and yes the audio example was just that, an example, if you took your remark from wikipedia, then you obviously missed the first paragraph.

http://en.wikipedia....8engineering%29

look to packet switched networks and read that carefully.
ping is a measurement of time it takes a signal to reach point a then return.

latency is the sum of all thats traveled including processing packet loss etc which is measured by a percentage in networks.

but at this point we are really splitting hairs, its the latency thats the issue is the bottomline, which we are all in agreeance with now.

having a good ping time is meaningless in this aspect, "jitter" was not part of the technical vocabulary though I can recognize it being a popular term to use now, before what is being reffered to as "jitter" was just a part of latency.
I still suspect a faulty DSLAM. reason being as not everyone gets this problem so its not something PGI is doing directly. though thier implementation of HSR could cause it to exaggerate the effect as the errors are processed coming from client a into the host and client b before being spit out again which then would gain more latency as it passes thru the dslam again..

mainly what I am finding is people who have thier signals routed south of chicago are getting this effect.
people in cali could possibly have thier signals routed north or south depending on thier location in cali itself. outside of that most ppl whose signal travels thru the "heartland" are the ones who are getting the most issues.

care to comment?

am also considering running a smoke test to locate said dslam. but would have to look into it more as im not sure as to the practicality of those tests anymore

Edited by Havok1978, 02 July 2013 - 07:39 AM.

[Havok1978]

Sarsaparilla Kid, on 01 July 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

Let's review some definitions then, per Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia....cy_vs_Bandwidth
"Performance measures

The following measures are often considered important:

• Bandwidth commonly measured in bits/second is the maximum rate that information can be transferred
  
• Throughput the actual rate that information is transferred
  
• Latency the delay between the sender and the receiver decoding it, this is mainly a function of the signals travel time, and processing time at any nodes the information traverses
  
• Jitter variation in the time of arrival at the receiver of the information
  
• Error rate the number of corrupted bits expressed as a percentage or fraction of the total sent

A common misunderstanding is that having greater throughput means a "faster" connection. However, throughput, latency, the type of information transmitted, and the way that information is applied all affect the perceived speed of a connection."


And : http://en.wikipedia....king_utility%29

"Ping is a computer network administration utility used to test the reachability of a host on an Internet Protocol (IP) network and to measure the round-trip time for messages sent from the originating host to a destination computer. The name comes from active sonar terminology which sends a pulse of sound and listens for the echo to detect objects underwater.^[1]
Ping operates by sending Internet Control Message Protocol (ICMP) echo request packets to the target host and waiting for an ICMP response. In the process it measures the time from transmission to reception (round-trip time)^[1] and records any packet loss. The results of the test are printed in the form of a statistical summary of the response packets received, including the minimum, maximum, and the mean round-trip times, and sometimes the standard deviation of the mean. Ping does not evaluate or compute the time to establish the connection; it only gives the mean round-trip times of an established connection with an open session."

be sure to click the "latency" hotlink in your post as it provides a better understanding of the difference between ping and latency.

[Featherwood]

AC hit detection issues happen even on 160ms latency (I've started to hate those pesky Spiders now), so yes, something was broken in last patch among other broken things. Fingers crossed for upcoming patch.

Edited by Featherwood, 02 July 2013 - 08:44 AM.

[Sarsaparilla Kid]

Havok1978, on 02 July 2013 - 07:19 AM, said:

mainly what I am finding is people who have thier signals routed south of chicago are getting this effect.
people in cali could possibly have thier signals routed north or south depending on thier location in cali itself. outside of that most ppl whose signal travels thru the "heartland" are the ones who are getting the most issues.

Palo Alto to Chicago, myself, and am seeing some packet loss on that hop, too. When I play Rift, I'm routed from San Jose to LA first, then out of state, and no problems to report there. You'd think those guys in Sillycone Valley would have the best equipment to boost the signal to Chicago, wouldn't you?

[Dirkdaring]

I didn't read the entire thread, so I'm sure someone has already mentioned it.

Try a gaming tunnel. When I played WoW, several friends overseas used the http://www.smoothping.com/ service. I never tried it (I have 35-45ms ping on fios) but you can check it out for free.

Edited by Dirkdaring, 02 July 2013 - 09:38 AM.