27 replies to this topic

[POOTYTANGASAUR]

I know how to fix the clans OPness and balance the game. It kinda follows canon. But when clans first drop they should crush IS and i want this. For like 2-3 weeks i want all clan mechs to **** and i mean **** IS mechs. Then like a trickle effect IS mechs should start being able to equip clan tech. Many will argue then there is no reason to use clan mechs. But don't let IS use all clan tech (dhs and like items). So they can use their weapons and have the same fighting abilities but can't totally rule out the purchase of an insanely expensive clan mech. I am sure and this is one of the only times that im sure. But i think PGI will in fact have a way to balance this but i sure hope it isn't gimping clans by going 5v8 or 6v8. Because that can many times be a gimp you cant overcome. Because when the IS mechs can focus fire more effectively it will end in clans being useless. I think the clans could maybe have a lower weight cap. Like IS cap of 800 tons and clan cap of 700 or 750. This sounds weird but would stop people from running 8 Daishis and crushing all who oppose. Because i guarantee atlases can't take Daishis. But if they give me my Devastator then Daishis can be handled and clans won't need gimped. If each side has weight classes like 2 assaults, 2 heavies, 2 meds, 2 lights and there could be a separate playlist for groups of 4 or 8 or eventually 12. IDK just an idea and clans are a ways out so doesn't matter yet anyway. TY for your time and give me your ideas.

Edited by POOTYTANGASAUR, 28 June 2013 - 09:42 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Balancing clan mechs is simple.....they are just going to allow Inner Sphere mechs to mount clan weapons (for a cost of course....probably C-bills but wouldn't be surprised if it is MC).

Sure there will be some resctrictions like Clan Endo and FF only available on Clan mechs but the weapons will be mountable on IS mechs and the lore supports this. Just read the novels, there are tons of example of the IS mounting captured/salvaged Clan weapons on their mechs.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Indeed.

[Stonefalcon]

They had a mechanism to balance Clan tech and that was repair and rearm. Clan tech is extremely expensive so much so that when the first clan mechs were salvaged 20 tonne firemoths were selling for 80mill and repairs were ridiculous.

But because some people were exploiting the repair system and instead of PGI forcing repairs to keep everyone on a level playing field they removed the simulation and any chance they had to balance Clan tech.

So anything you suggest to balance Clan tech is mute because the best system they had they removed to satisfy the COD crowd.

[Adridos]

Viktor Drake, on 28 June 2013 - 10:43 PM, said:

Balancing clan mechs is simple.....they are just going to allow Inner Sphere mechs to mount clan weapons (for a cost of course....probably C-bills but wouldn't be surprised if it is MC).

Nope.

You do that and you can safely delete around 50% of the game.

All the IS tech becomes completely obsolete and all the Clan omnies become completely obsolete...

[Fajther]

As usual I disagree with more people on this forum then I agree with. Repair and rearm, is horrible!!! It is a pay to win mechanic. MWO is 100% the better game for not having it.

[color=#000000]OmniMechs are not fully modular. An OmniMech's structural components: its engine, internal structure, armor and any equipment installed on the base chassis of OmniMech are "hard-wired" and cannot be modified outside of a total redesign of the 'Mech.[/color]
[color=#000000]1.NO changing the engine[/color]
[color=#000000]2.No taking off internal structure[/color]
[color=#000000]3.No messing with the armor, [/color]
[color=#000000]4.No moduel slots?[/color]

[Artgathan]

I'm pretty sure clan tech will just generate stupid amounts of heat. So much that even their 2 slot DHS won't save them.

[Fajther]

Artgathan, on 29 June 2013 - 05:32 AM, said:

I'm pretty sure clan tech will just generate stupid amounts of heat. So much that even their 2 slot DHS won't save them.

Let it be so!

[Dracol]

I could see it going like this:

No tech mixing for a while
Clans and IS each have their own quees. Clan v clan or IS v IS
Special events will be held where IS fights Clan, players will be notified that running IS will be outgunned but rewards will be higher

[Jonny Taco]

Dracol, on 29 June 2013 - 05:43 AM, said:

I could see it going like this:

No tech mixing for a while
Clans and IS each have their own quees. Clan v clan or IS v IS
Special events will be held where IS fights Clan, players will be notified that running IS will be outgunned but rewards will be higher

This would be exceedingly boring and extremely unimaginative as well...

What's needed is a higher matchmaking value as well as reduced drop numbers. As has been suggested, clans should drop in "starts" as is seen in the btech universe... For example, 1 star could face off against 2 lances (5v8) or 2 stars vs 3 lances (10v12). The the case of the 5v8, the individual clan mechs would be of a slightly higher matchmaking value than the is, in terms of the 10v12, the IS would have the slightly higher matchmaking value per mech.

Combine this with reasonable implementations of clan weapons and I see 100% no reason why IS can't fight Clan... Oh, by "reasonable" I mean not cannon values... As in a Clan ER PPC would do like 11.5 dmg per shot, not 15... A clan lrm 20 would weigh like 7.5 to 8 tons, not 4.5... If this messes up stock fits, well then, by all means, mess them up.

[Dmitri Valenov]

I'll bet PGI is kicking themselves right now for setting this game in 3050. Clans pretty much take balance, douse it in gasoline, light it on fire, then drop a nuke on it.

Personally, I don't care if we never see clan mechs. Almost all of the previous MW titles dealt with the clan invasion, we need one firmly set in the Succession Wars era. I know that's out of the question as all the Clanners want their toys, I just hope they don't screw over the people that want to play IS by making Clan mechs the only viable option for play.

Dmitri

[Gaan Cathal]

Fajther, on 29 June 2013 - 05:06 AM, said:

As usual I disagree with more people on this forum then I agree with. Repair and rearm, is horrible!!! It is a pay to win mechanic. MWO is 100% the better game for not having it.

Inaccurate statement.

Clans can have their firepower advantage balanced by simply dropping 10v12. That two mech starting disadvantage is a big deal with MW:O's dynamic, especially since Clan mechs don't have any better defenses than their IS counterparts.

[Waking One]

It's easy. Let IS mechs use clan weapons and upgrades, except engines. And make clan mechs unable to change their engine size, as per omnimech "lore".

They will never be able to fit insane amounts of stuff on or go excessively faster than original, while IS mechs won't get the insanely op clan XL engines, maintaining some of their flavour.

Oh and screw the lore when it comes to LRMs, clan ones need a minimal range too or there's no point in using streaks at all.

[Accursed Richards]

Waking One, on 29 June 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

It's easy. Let IS mechs use clan weapons and upgrades, except engines. And make clan mechs unable to change their engine size, as per omnimech "lore".

So the omni-mechs should be less customisable than IS mechs currently are?

[Butane9000]

The rumor of the day (or most popular) is:

Clan Omnimechs (Timber Wolf, Summoner, Mad Dog among the other 13) will follow similar though not complete rules as TT where Omnimechs are set in what they have for weapons and equipment. However we like to change out weapons so the rumor is if you pilot an Omnimech you'll be stuck with the equipment that comes on that version but you'll be able to change out weaponry.

Let's look at the primary Timber Wolf (Mad Cat) Loadout

XL375
15 Heat Sinks (Double)
Endo Steel Chassis
Ferro Fibrous Armor

None of the above you could change. You could also not change whether the mech has MASC or not as well as possibly being restricted in removing ECM/BAP. However you could change out the Mad Cat's load out which on this version is:

2x ER Large Laser
2x ER Medium Laser
1x Medium Pulse Laser
2x Machine Guns
2x LRM-20's

I'm not sure the hard points but I'd wager given the current system that would be 5 energy, 2 ballistic and 2 missile unless some of those are omni hard points.

Finally in regards to IS using clan tech. I do believe the tech will be restricted and they will add items to the IS buy list as we "salvage" them from a lore stand point or whenever the Wolf's Dragoons just give out all the info.

[Jestun]

Fajther, on 29 June 2013 - 05:06 AM, said:

As usual I disagree with more people on this forum then I agree with. Repair and rearm, is horrible!!! It is a pay to win mechanic. MWO is 100% the better game for not having it.

What do you think pay 2 win means? o.O

[Gaan Cathal]

Butane9000, on 29 June 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

The rumor of the day (or most popular) is:

[Omnimechs will be less flexible than non-omnimechs]

I'd be very surprised if PGI actually went to all the effort of designing a whole new section of Mechlab just to make:

a: Omnimechs less versatile than standard mechs, which is the opposite of what should be true, irrespective of the details.
b: Omnimechs with bad stock designs with silly engine choices and low armour DoA.

To say nothing of the fact that you're misrepresenting the status of Omnimechs anyway. An Omnimech can have a workshop refit where the engine is removed, the skeleton replaced or whatever. It merely deprives it of Omni status from that point on. Since being able to replace weapons on the spot vs over a week makes no difference in MW:O, that makes them functionally identical to a standard IS mech of the sort we use currently. They just use Clan Tech.

[FupDup]

Finding a magic ratio that actually gives each side a roughly 50% chance of winning (at equal skill levels) will be almost impossible. Assuming 5v8, 10v12, or anything else just because of TT is foolish at best and utterly naive at worst. There are so many conditions in MWO that will make Clan mechs either better than TT or worse than TT:

1. Convergence (Timber Wolf = DoA)
2. Doubled armor (higher emphasis on alpha-strikes to penetrate it, Clans are better at this specific strategy)
3. Free and open customization of standard Battlemechs (Omnimech advantages lost completely; also, the TT ratios were based on stock mechs for both sides whereas every player in MWO worth his/her salt uses a custom)
4. Ultra Autocannon implementation (UAC/20 will be broken)
5. No heat penalties (spam ER lazors)
6. Clan pilots in MWO will actually know how to use real tactics, as opposed to TT pilots who used stupid honor rules
7. 1.4 DHS (Clan DHS are smaller and can thus be spammed easier, this hurts IS much more)


Something to remember is that the TT ratios were based on pure fluff (just the preferences of each faction) and thus will not likely work at all in MWO due to the differences listed above as well as any that I might have missed. I hate to break it to ya'll, but using multiples of 4 for IS and 5 for Clans could quite possibly cause a massive shitstorm of brokenness one way or the other (Clans UP or OP). We're gonna need completely new numbers for Mechwarrior: Online.

Edited by FupDup, 29 June 2013 - 07:02 AM.

[Xeno Phalcon]

Clan tech at this day and age in the battletech storyline is scary stuff and if just tossed into MWO with its tabletop values it will turn into a brutal cheesesfest the likes of what would make the current 'meta competative players' weep tears of blood.

LRM20s that only weigh 5 tons, ER large lasers that only take up a single crit slot and weigh a ton less, and dont get me started on the 12 ton clan UAC20

And id kill to get some clan ER medium lasers on my quickdraw, 7dmg a laser at one ton each and with the same range as a standard large laser. So much evil!

[skullman86]

I don't like the thought of mixing tech because it makes even more of our equipment obsolete. I would love to see some IS omnis (don't think any fit the timeline yet) after the invasion, but the current chassis should not be compatible with clan tech.

Clan omnis should not have the option to modify engines, structures, or armor and their teams should be outnumbered when up against IS. That should be enough to keep them balanced since we all know what happens when one team is outnumbered and the other is focus firing.