40 replies to this topic

[SubRyan]

750m/s


Let that sink in a for a moment......


Done? Okay then, let me discuss my harebrained idea for this one. Plasma is going to create a lot of friction traveling through air due to the immense heat necessary to maintain the high-energy plasma. Bringing the projectile speed down from 2000m/s to 750m/s would truly make the PPC a heavy energy weapon for brawling, which the energy weapons definitely need.

Compared to the ballistic king of the king of the hill (AC/20), PPC/ERPPPC would travel 150m/s slower but have a comparable/longer range while maintaining a higher heat generation without needing ammunition. This would leave LRMs and Gauss rifles as the premier range options but would also encourage more people to get up close and personal with that mech they are trying to destroy

TLDR: Convert PPC into a brawling weapon by reducing projectile speed by 1250m/s

[Zervziel]

Because so many people want to save that high-heat weapon until the enemy is practically riding your balls to use. The AC20 is a brawling weapon, the PPC is meant to poke enemies at longer ranges.

It's role as a energy sniper isn't the issue, the issue is being able to unload six of the damn things with pinpoint accuracy and not look like a sun god in thermal vision.

[Havok1978]

Zervziel, on 29 June 2013 - 05:51 AM, said:

Because so many people want to save that high-heat weapon until the enemy is practically riding your balls to use. The AC20 is a brawling weapon, the PPC is meant to poke enemies at longer ranges.

It's role as a energy sniper isn't the issue, the issue is being able to unload six of the damn things with pinpoint accuracy and not look like a sun god in thermal vision.

I agree with the pony pounder

[Jonny Taco]

yeah, because nerfing the projectile velocity by over 50% really will help ppcs become better brawling weapons...

[skullman86]

There is no need to redesign an existing weapon to fill roles that are already filled by other weapons. The standard PPC is intended to be used as a sniper weapon, that is why it has a field inhibitor in the rules; the ERPPC on the other hand loses the inhibitor (and can technically brawl), but it is supposed to be hotter than hell. Lasers are true brawling weapons -- they are incredibly light, and the fact that energy is the most abundant hardpoint in the game means you can usually carry quite a few of them.

Edited by skullman86, 29 June 2013 - 07:54 AM.

[jakucha]

I don't think projectile speed is the problem. More likely to do with alpha spam on that weapon and lack of alpha penalties, in regard to heat or whatever.

[Bagheera]

PPC isn't a brawling weapon, and frankly part of the problem is that it's extreme muzzle velocity makes it a GOOD brawling weapon.

Z's nailed the rest of the problem.

However, I do agree that the PPC was better balanced when it was the speed of a Gauss, not the speed of an AC2 round. On the other hand, that just makes them easier to pair.

[Unbound Inferno]

NO.

Slowing the projectile speed won't have the desired result you want.

Besides, PPC is supposed to be sniping range.

[Majorfatboy]

We had slow ppcs in closed beta...... NOBODY USED THEM. They were awful, you could only hit a target standing perfectly still at range, and had even more trouble nailing a moving target up close.

Besides, ppcs are not ment to be brawling weapons, they're sniping weapons. As has allready been stated, medium lasers are quite effective in a brawl.

[PEEFsmash]

PPC speed could use a nerf. Probably back down to 1500. OP's post was not good other than suggesting that PPCs ought to go a bit slower.

[Homeless Bill]

PEEFsmash, on 29 June 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

Probably back down to 1500.

~1500 sounds about right to me. 750 is ridiculously slow for a sniper weapon, but I don't think it should be easier to snipe with a PPC than with an ammo-dependent sniper weapon that explodes to keep its brawling effectiveness limited.

[AnnoyingCat]

i thought about cats... then i forgot what we are talking about here

[Bors Mistral]

SubRyan, the PPC should be exactly the opposite of what you are suggesting.

SubRyan, on 29 June 2013 - 05:39 AM, said:

...Bringing the projectile speed down from 2000m/s to 750m/s would truly make the PPC a heavy energy weapon for brawling, which the energy weapons definitely need...

There's that thing called LPL. It does exactly what you seem to want.

The PPCs should be good medium-to-long-range weapons, but should be considerably ill suited for brawling. What I'd suggest is:
- Increase the min range damage fallout of the PPC from 90m to 180m. Give the ERPPC a 90m min range.
- Make intentional the firing delay that was sometimes present before. Start with half a second of capacitor charge and go higher if necessary. This will give PPCs some of the keep-on-target disadvantage that lasers have, while at the same time keeping the weapon different.

[GODzillaGSPB]

Nerfing it based on science, eh? Lol. Sorry.

It should be nerfed when the need arrises and based on playtesting. 750m/s would be a crippling blow to the weapon. An ac/20 projectile moves faster!

I do agree that the need did arrise, but do believe that there are better ways. Like more head.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

To be on topic...

...slowing down the PPC to 1200m/s again like it was in Closed Beta only benefits those mechs that also use Gauss Rifles.

For this velocity switch to be an actual nerf, it would have to be changed to around 1400m/s so that Gauss/PPC combo isn't subsequently and inadvertently buffed.

[CG Oglethorpe Kerensky]

Quote

750m/s


Let that sink in a for a moment......


Done? Okay then, let me discuss my harebrained idea for this one. Plasma is going to create a lot of friction traveling through air due to the immense heat necessary to maintain the high-energy plasma.

Particle Cannons are not plasma, that would be a plasma weapon.
The thing about particle beams is that we actually have them today, but we haven't figured out how to weaponize them. As a sidenote we also know what would happen to a person hit by them courtesy of one unfortunate Anatoli Bugorski. MWO PPC bolts travel at 2,000 m/s, which is just a bit slower than their actual speed that is just shy of 300,000,000 m/s.

If it were me I would up their heat, they are not nearly hot enough these days.
And for added realism, treat them as hitscan weapons like a laser with a very short (0.25 second) duration.

[PEEFsmash]

CG Oglethorpe Kerensky, on 29 June 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

If it were me I would up their heat, they are not nearly hot enough these days.
And for added realism, treat them as hitscan weapons like a laser with a very short (0.25 second) duration.

This would be a good change for the PPC. Turn it into a short duration beam.

Edited by PEEFsmash, 29 June 2013 - 03:03 PM.

[hammerreborn]

Majorfatboy, on 29 June 2013 - 07:56 AM, said:

We had slow ppcs in closed beta...... NOBODY USED THEM. They were awful, you could only hit a target standing perfectly still at range, and had even more trouble nailing a moving target up close.

Besides, ppcs are not ment to be brawling weapons, they're sniping weapons. As has allready been stated, medium lasers are quite effective in a brawl.

Nobody used ppcs because they were high weight, high heat weapons that even if you managed to "hit" a target with them would get "lol nope"ed by netcode. The speed was increased and the heat was decreased to help combat the netcode, and as it was fixed we have what we have now

I'm all for a speed nerf but it still needs to be faster than a gauss rifle

Edited by hammerreborn, 29 June 2013 - 03:09 PM.

[Profiteer]

Hard-point Restrictions.

[Waking One]

Majorfatboy, on 29 June 2013 - 07:56 AM, said:

We had slow ppcs in closed beta...... NOBODY USED THEM. They were awful, you could only hit a target standing perfectly still at range, and had even more trouble nailing a moving target up close.

Besides, ppcs are not ment to be brawling weapons, they're sniping weapons. As has allready been stated, medium lasers are quite effective in a brawl.

[REDACTED]

Nobody used them because you couldn't hit anything due to the **** hit detection, even after they lowered the heat and increased the speed still nobody used them, only after HSR came in they became popular.

Edited by Helmer, 30 June 2013 - 12:00 AM.
Insult/Ad hominem