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It´s A Shame!


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#1 Fat Amy

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 12:56 PM

I just "played" an assault game on caustic valley and won against my will by capping!

I believe there was not a single shot fired while both teams went to cap the opposing base. I even asked my own teammates not to do that!

While I understand that this happens within the boundaries and rules of the game, it´s just against my nature and - in my opinion - against the true intention of the game. Wheres the fun?
I tried to invite players who actually wanted to fight to meet me in the middle, but there wasn´t even enough time to write that.

It´s just sad, so I needed to write this down. :D :unsure:

#2 xCico

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 03:56 PM

Yep, assualt is pretty much design to real battle but some people just see ''Take over the enemy base'' or whatever is written there for base :|

#3 CeeKay Boques

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 04:18 PM

Every once in a while, you must win a game by capping, to keep the threat alive. Otherwise, half of your team won't split off to fight 1 Raven, and leave you exposed in the middle.

If you don't lose to capping for a long while, one raven WILL win the game, because no one goes back for a non existent threat. :unsure:

#4 Phaesphoros

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 04:26 PM

Use scouts and communicate. The art of scouting seems to have been lost somewhere in the PPC meta. (Lostech?)

#5 Felicitatem Parco

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 05:16 PM

"Assault" and "Conquest" are only the beginning... so training yourself to win by means other than killing, even in Assault Mode, may help your chances of success in Community Warfare when they add more game modes. I think the fact that Bases are include din Assault Mode forces people to consider the future, rather than just training ourselves to death brawl without regard for the Mission Objectives.

It's a fact of war - killing enemy units does not make you win; destroying the enemy's ability to wage war is how you win. This can be accomplished by many ways, one of which is "killing all their units," but there are ways to win every war without killing all the enemy's Units. Killing Units is an effective way to reduce their local firepower, and thus render their local assets vulnerable to capture/destruction... hence bases in Assault Mode. We've been forced to train for the future, instead of allowed to brawl freely in Team Deathmatch mode. I'm not mad at that. I'm sure there will be more options for those who wish to duke-it-out without having to worry about a rear-guard as time progresses, but for now it's probably doing us all a tactical favor.

#6 Ivan Bloodguard

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 08:12 PM

For those who think it's ok to cap on Assault:
In what wartime scenario does standing on a patch of ground doing absolutely nothing for 30-60 seconds while the rest of your team gets systematically mowed down grant a victory?

Edited by Ivan Bloodguard, 29 June 2013 - 08:12 PM.


#7 Signal27

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 09:08 PM

View PostFat Amy, on 29 June 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

I tried to invite players who actually wanted to fight to meet me in the middle, but there wasn´t even enough time to write that.


Whenever the match devolves into a simple cap race, don't bother trying to strike up a deal with the other team about leaving the cap to fight honorably or whatever the hell. Just get the match over and done with so you can move on to the next quicker. Hopefully it won't be another cap race.

#8 IraqiWalker

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 10:00 PM

Cap races are boring but sadly they do happen every now and then. Just get them over with quickly I say.


However, for all those people out there that are complaining about capping I have one word for you.

STRATEGY.

Seriously, if you want a slug fest, then wait for deathmatch. This game is not just a shooter, it's a game that requires actual knowledge of tactics, and proper deployment and utilization of strategy.

That's why we have different weight classes. A light mech can't brawl an assault mech one on one and expect to survive, that's stupid. No, lights run around, scout and wreak mayhem on the enemy team's back line using all means necessary, that includes capping.

Yes, base trades are boring, but they happen every now and then.

However, capping during a brawl match is not only a valid tactic it is a smart move. Causing that much confusion in the ranks of the enemy gives your team a huge advantage and allows you to wipe them out in a hurry. You don't need to always finish the cap, just stay there for a few seconds and watch the mayhem.

Many players keep whining about cap victories, and it seems to me that they have no clue what "Assault" means.

Have you guys thought about that? It is a base assault by both sides, as both are trying to destroy the enemy team and take over their base with all of the sensitive information and resources there. Remember this game is a simulator. That small point with the 4 glowing lights around it, is your team's only source of materials, information, and resources. If the enemy captures it, you do have your mechs around, but now you have no back up, you're cut off from the rest of your armies and are presumed dead. The enemy now has all the resources in that base and can now crush your small formation from both sides.

You need to keep that in mind the next time you play assault and realize that someone is capturing your base. Assault is not the same as death-match. It's not just a brainless brawl. Conquest on the other hand is a simulator for large engagements where bases or points of interest (POI)s keep changing sides.

For instance, there's a small train station in Stalingrad that changed sides back and forth 6 times in 4 hours during the battle for Stalingrad. That was pretty much point "Kappa" on that battle. Remember, you're not playing a first person shooter. Not a regular one at least.

This game utilizes tactics, strategy, and demands that you think during the fight. It's not just point and click here. You need to maintain battlefield awareness.


This is also why you need to have a couple of lights or mediums in your formation who are dedicated to base defense, that doesn't mean they sit at base for the entire match. Just that they are the ones designated to return to base when there is an attack on base.

View PostIvan Bloodguard, on 29 June 2013 - 08:12 PM, said:

For those who think it's ok to cap on Assault:
In what wartime scenario does standing on a patch of ground doing absolutely nothing for 30-60 seconds while the rest of your team gets systematically mowed down grant a victory?

When that patch of ground is a base full of resources and materials that will no longer be used to make sure your force can survive and is now deployed against you and is supporting your enemies.

So pretty much. Whenever it is done in real battle, look up military tactics and historic battles, see how may of them were about taking castles, cities, and bases from the other force. That's what that "patch of ground" is.

View PostProsperity Park, on 29 June 2013 - 05:16 PM, said:

"Assault" and "Conquest" are only the beginning... so training yourself to win by means other than killing, even in Assault Mode, may help your chances of success in Community Warfare when they add more game modes. I think the fact that Bases are include din Assault Mode forces people to consider the future, rather than just training ourselves to death brawl without regard for the Mission Objectives.

It's a fact of war - killing enemy units does not make you win; destroying the enemy's ability to wage war is how you win. This can be accomplished by many ways, one of which is "killing all their units," but there are ways to win every war without killing all the enemy's Units. Killing Units is an effective way to reduce their local firepower, and thus render their local assets vulnerable to capture/destruction... hence bases in Assault Mode. We've been forced to train for the future, instead of allowed to brawl freely in Team Deathmatch mode. I'm not mad at that. I'm sure there will be more options for those who wish to duke-it-out without having to worry about a rear-guard as time progresses, but for now it's probably doing us all a tactical favor.

Now that is the smart way of looking at it.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 29 June 2013 - 10:05 PM.


#9 Ivan Bloodguard

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 02:53 AM

View PostIraqiWalker, on 29 June 2013 - 10:00 PM, said:

When that patch of ground is a base full of resources and materials that will no longer be used to make sure your force can survive and is now deployed against you and is supporting your enemies.

So pretty much. Whenever it is done in real battle, look up military tactics and historic battles, see how may of them were about taking castles, cities, and bases from the other force. That's what that "patch of ground" is.


A squadron of infantry attacks a strategic target. They are outclassed and begin to take heavy damages immediately. One member of the attacking side makes it to the target without being slaughtered, and stands there for 60 seconds. Meanwhile, his squadmates are being systematically wiped out by the superior force. Just as the last of his team is about to go down, everyone decides to stop fighting and declare the insurgents the winner because an arbitrary time limit has been met. Yay. Let's all be friends now and congratulate the guy who stood on the square.

Sorry, couldn't find any similar cases in historic battles but I'll keep digging. Make us destroy the base or something and I'd be fine with it, it's the "stand there and do nothing" win that bugs me.

Edited by Ivan Bloodguard, 30 June 2013 - 03:03 AM.


#10 Damascas

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 04:48 AM

I never see the big deal with capping. If there was none why would anyone bring anything other than an assault to assault games? By the way, I do fully understand the irony of that statement and am chuckling at it still.

Anyway I currently have only been using my Atlases and mostly playing assault games and the knowledge that a little X-5 Cicada may try to dart back to cap my base adds a bit extra to the strategy. One tactic I commonly try to employ with others is to engage the enemy then send 1-2 lights around to cap the base. We then try to keep the enemy tied up in battle and if someone tries to run back to stop the base cappers eats LRMs and gauss shots to their rear torso. We often win through kills because the capper throws the enemy line into confusion.

#11 Kylarus

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 11:23 AM

View PostIvan Bloodguard, on 30 June 2013 - 02:53 AM, said:

A squadron of infantry attacks a strategic target. They are outclassed and begin to take heavy damages immediately. One member of the attacking side makes it to the target without being slaughtered, and stands there for 60 seconds. Meanwhile, his squadmates are being systematically wiped out by the superior force. Just as the last of his team is about to go down, everyone decides to stop fighting and declare the insurgents the winner because an arbitrary time limit has been met. Yay. Let's all be friends now and congratulate the guy who stood on the square.

Make it so that point is the sole source of water in the deserts of Africa, the controls to the local AAA that holds off your forces aerofighters/bombers, or the comms relay node that will allow your enemy to call in reinforcements after that 15min timer has expired. Suddenly controlling that spot, or denying it use to the enemy is more important. Remember, standing in the square for a few minutes is hopefully a placeholder for further features.

#12 BigMekkUrDakka

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 11:41 AM

**** happens (
its a disgrace for warrior to win by cap

#13 Fat Amy

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 01:27 PM

I can agree with a lot of what is being that in favor for capping in general. It is true that capping can make for pretty good diversion and I donst have a problem when sometimes a game is won by capping. What struck me as idiotic was that both teams went around the crater without even trying to shoot someone. It was only a matter of who would be there first. NO ONE had any damage given or taken!

By the way: Taking about real-life war tactics and translating those to MWO isnt helpig at all. While you may have valid points, BattleTech/MechWarrior as tabletop, videogame and fiction is a lot about being the best (honorable) warrior in terms of beating enemy Mechs. This is a fictional scenario.

Well, I made my peace with that particular cap-race. I also approve of the game-mode in general. I just believe it should be played another way than that.

Maybe its the fact that I played a clan-role in MW4 for quite some time. In the end I agree with BigMekkUrDakka: it was a disgrace.

#14 Liquid Leopard

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 02:41 PM

I know what you mean. I started this game to shoot death rays at stompy robots, so i usually prefer assault mode, and I don't like to win by cap unless my team has been decimated.

Capping has a certain place in tactics where the game can be fun. I have some friends that will often do a "tease cap" to divert enemy forces. They usually get off the base when the enemy mechs show up to shoot them. In the rare cases the enemy ignores it, they'll just stand on that base... Next time we play those people, they know not to ignore it.

Rushing for the enemy base right at the start, for the purpose of capping, isn't cool in my opinion.

#15 Damon Howe

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 03:04 PM

View PostIvan Bloodguard, on 30 June 2013 - 02:53 AM, said:


A squadron of infantry attacks a strategic target. They are outclassed and begin to take heavy damages immediately. One member of the attacking side makes it to the target without being slaughtered, and stands there for 60 seconds. Meanwhile, his squadmates are being systematically wiped out by the superior force. Just as the last of his team is about to go down, everyone decides to stop fighting and declare the insurgents the winner because an arbitrary time limit has been met. Yay. Let's all be friends now and congratulate the guy who stood on the square.

Sorry, couldn't find any similar cases in historic battles but I'll keep digging. Make us destroy the base or something and I'd be fine with it, it's the "stand there and do nothing" win that bugs me.


As Kylarus stated, that's an incredibly narrow-minded way of looking at it.

If that 'square' is your enemies' forward observation post, congrats. You just captured or killed the intel support, supply lines, commanding officer, etc in one fell swoop by taking that undefended base. Sure, you killed 7 of their mechs and none of you died but lost by cap. Wooptie do-dah. While you were out galavanting about kicking ***, that Moblie HQ that held the Planetary General just got blown to pieces by a Spider. Why? Because you didn't turn around.

Congrats, now you have no CoC and far less military intel then your enemy, who extracted all the data on YOUR positions while you were taking your sweet time getting back. Good luck winning the war mate, its no wonder you're a private.

#16 Wildstreak

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 04:12 PM

View PostIvan Bloodguard, on 29 June 2013 - 08:12 PM, said:

For those who think it's ok to cap on Assault:
In what wartime scenario does standing on a patch of ground doing absolutely nothing for 30-60 seconds while the rest of your team gets systematically mowed down grant a victory?

- Foot soldiers (not represented) sack a base for intel and need a guard.
- You need to get close to establish a wireless link so a hacker back at your base can raid their system.

There's 2.

#17 IraqiWalker

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 01:38 AM

View PostIvan Bloodguard, on 30 June 2013 - 02:53 AM, said:


A squadron of infantry attacks a strategic target. They are outclassed and begin to take heavy damages immediately. One member of the attacking side makes it to the target without being slaughtered, and stands there for 60 seconds. Meanwhile, his squadmates are being systematically wiped out by the superior force. Just as the last of his team is about to go down, everyone decides to stop fighting and declare the insurgents the winner because an arbitrary time limit has been met. Yay. Let's all be friends now and congratulate the guy who stood on the square.

Sorry, couldn't find any similar cases in historic battles but I'll keep digging. Make us destroy the base or something and I'd be fine with it, it's the "stand there and do nothing" win that bugs me.


Our drops aren't just 8 dudes, they are a simulation of a full assault. We win by seizing that when they finish adding the full schabang including base defenses I think you'd understand capping more. Also, he's not standing around doing nothing, he's seizing the base, sector by sector.

You really gotta get into the simulation mentality.

Also, you can literally look into any battle near a city or castle throughout all of history. They involve trying to capture the target or defending it. Look harder mate.

View PostLiquid Leopard, on 30 June 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

Rushing for the enemy base right at the start, for the purpose of capping, isn't cool in my opinion.


That is cap racing, which in my opinion is just a boring way to play the game. It's not even playing. I can understand a blitzkrieg, but a cap race is boring. That's why you just get on with it and get to the next match quickly.





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