49 replies to this topic

[Tennex]

In many mechwarrior games and other sources, the house liao symbol often depicts a katana. The katana is a japanese sword

Although Chinese and Japanese culture may seem similar. Each is has over a thousand years of distinct heritage.

Since the entirety of the blade is not shown in the emblem on this website, I hope the rest of the blade is widens into the shape of a dao instead of a katana.

Such as the case that one would never expect to see a Jian instead of a european middle-ages sword for house Davion's emblem (or be served canadian bacon when ordering bacon from an american menu)

This one is sort of "politically correct"



Edit: look guys the connotation for the word Dao in chinese implies any sort of cutting weapon. Heck even a katana is a dao. Though heavily the connotation are in either the saber type weapon or as used in modern china, a kitchen knife.

The weapon I am referring to is two of the chinese swords commonly seen in chinese history these are loosely named jian or dao.

In popular Japanese and Chinese video games or movies native from either countries borrowing from culture and history, there is a clear distinction between Jian, Dao and the Katana.

Examples include Soul Caliber and Dynasty Warriors, and many other unnamed chinese mmorpgs.

Edited by Tennex, 25 July 2012 - 08:44 AM.

[Stefan Ukris Amaris]

[Elbola Ierocis]

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Dao According to the knowledge base...it is a Dao sword. Text description is a dao sword, not katana.

[Tennex]

Elbola Ierocis, on 24 July 2012 - 07:23 PM, said:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Dao According to the knowledge base...it is a Dao sword. Text description is a dao sword, not katana.

You can call a katana a dao but its still a katana lol...

Edit: a dao is not a rapier it is a slashing weapon designed to be used in broad sweaping motions.

Edited by Tennex, 24 July 2012 - 07:28 PM.

[Elbola Ierocis]

Not all dao widen at the end. A dao is just the generic name for a broadbladed curved slicing tool and is one of the four primary ancient chinese weapons. Pictured in the capellan crest is a dao. More over there are almost no differences visually between the Tang dao and the katana.

[Manthony Higgs]

haven't you made this thread before?

[Tennex]

Elbola Ierocis, on 24 July 2012 - 07:35 PM, said:

Not all dao widen at the end. A dao is just the generic name for a broadbladed curved slicing tool and is one of the four primary ancient chinese weapons. Pictured in the capellan crest is a dao. More over there are almost no differences visually between the Tang dao and the katana.

a katana has a curved edge! guys c'mon there is a difference between japanese and chinese cultures... southpark was very clear about that.

A "Dao" even slightly similar to a katana as in the case of the tang dao, is such a historical minority it should in no way represent the chinese culture.

[Manthony Higgs]

It could be a mini Miao Dao too

[Tennex]

I mean its frustrating.. theres all this depth in culture but all is seen is this superficial overaching generic asian sword thats not even from the right country.

[Elbola Ierocis]

You didn't even read the URL you posted on the dao. The dao influenced the katana's construction during the Tang period of China's history. At which point they looked very much the same. A long curved blade. Japan stuck to it and refined it. China went many different ways with more experimentation. You're trying to make the argument that the creators of the crest screwed up when they just selected an image of a chinese sword. Their territory isn't just chinese. Why aren't you arguing that they should have a more russian looking sword? Argument difused.

Edited by Elbola Ierocis, 24 July 2012 - 07:46 PM.

[Tennex]

Manthony Higgs, on 24 July 2012 - 07:42 PM, said:

It could be a mini Miao Dao too

Yeah thanks for that post lol
I dunno i just feel like it represents a minority in chinese culture. Miao Dao is massive too awesome weapon

Elbola Ierocis, on 24 July 2012 - 07:45 PM, said:

You didn't even read the URL you posted on the dao. The dao influenced the katana's construction during the Tang period of China's history. At which point they looked very much the same. A long curved blade. Japan stuck to it and refined it. China went many different ways with more experimentation. You're trying to make the argument that the creators of the crest screwed up when they just selected an image of a chinese sword.

Lol Just becaues humans and chimps evolved form the same Ancestor doesn't mean that a chimp should be depicted with a symbol of a human, just because the human is more specialized and diverged. Nor does it mean that both species should be represented by the ancestor, that no longer exists.

Elbola Ierocis, on 24 July 2012 - 07:45 PM, said:

\heir territory isn't just chinese. Why aren't you arguing that they should have a more russian looking sword? Argument difused.

The house is named "Liao" I would assume that the founder of the house was chinese, in which case he would want his emblem to be chinese...

Edited by Tennex, 24 July 2012 - 07:54 PM.

[Elbola Ierocis]

What's the name of their intel agency again?

[Manthony Higgs]

From Sarna.net:
The Maskirovka, named after the russian word for "feint", is the intelligence arm of the Capellan Confederation. Created in 2396 shortly after the founding of the Confederation itself, it was responsible for executing many of the purges of the Capellan people by the successive Chancellors over the years.

Edited by Manthony Higgs, 24 July 2012 - 07:59 PM.

[Rhyshaelkan]

"The Maskirovka, named after the russian word for "feint", is the intelligence arm of the Capellan Confederation. Created in 2396 shortly after the founding of the Confederation itself, it was responsible for executing many of the purges of the Capellan people by the successive Chancellors over the years."

People see Liao and they think everything about it has to be Chinese...

Unless I am mistaken Kuritans had blue eyes from Russian descent.

People got off Terra and knocked boots. Many times. Ethnicity is quite a blurry subject in Battletech.


Edit: Just beat me to it

Edited by Rhyshaelkan, 24 July 2012 - 08:10 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

nothing worse than when a fellow THINKS he has found a big screw up, makes a bunch of posts to show off how much he knows (hah! I know something FASA didn't) only tot be shown by multiple posters that the OP didn't read his own source material deeply enough, and then to watch them try to justify how none of that matters, because I am right .... because, because... I am darn it!

Lad, almost all of us have been there at some point, and the best option is to quit whilst you are ahead.

[Tennex]

Elbola Ierocis, on 24 July 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

What's the name of their intel agency again?

It sure isn't Kurita. The creators knew very well that the two cultures are not to be mixed. Hence distinct cultures for both capellan confederation and draconis combine. In fact both are very much mutually exclusive.

Such is the case possibly because the creators understood the animosity between the two nations. For such a reason there should be no excuse that one culture would choose to represent itself with a sword that could be easily mistaken for its bitter rival's?




guys.. russian influence does not explain a japanese sword lol... (Not sure if they call that logical fallacy a strawman or red herring lol bu tthere is definately a flaw in logic here)

Edited by Tennex, 24 July 2012 - 08:09 PM.

[Elbola Ierocis]

Draconis Combine are using a long trailing dragon. The dragon is more from chinese culture. Davions are supposed to be more french yet they have a broadsword which is more scottish.

The capellan logo is at least a dao(chinese) even if it is remote in history.

Edited by Elbola Ierocis, 24 July 2012 - 08:11 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Tennex, on 24 July 2012 - 08:03 PM, said:

It sure isn't Kurita. The creators knew very well that the two cultures are not to be mixed. Hence distinct cultures for both capellan confederation and draconis combine. In fact both are very much mutually exclusive.

Such is the case possibly because the creators understood the animosity between the two nations. For such a reason there should be no excuse that one culture would choose to represent itself with a sword that could be easily mistaken for its bitter rival's?




guys.. russian influence does not explain a japanese sword lol... (Not sure if they call that logical fallacy a strawman or red herring lol bu tthere is definately a flaw in logic here)

[Tennex]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 July 2012 - 08:00 PM, said:

nothing worse than when a fellow THINKS he has found a big screw up, makes a bunch of posts to show off how much he knows (hah! I know something FASA didn't) only tot be shown by multiple posters that the OP didn't read his own source material deeply enough, and then to watch them try to justify how none of that matters, because I am right .... because, because... I am darn it!

Lad, almost all of us have been there at some point, and the best option is to quit whilst you are ahead.

I'm not trying to "show off" what I know. to be honest. I am doing this because i find it offensive. I am chinese personally and and also interested in a lot of japanese culture. Although people like me might be a minority, it is really clear the difference between the two... and i want this game to succeed. So wouldn't it be best if there wasn't anything that offended either side in the issue?

Bishop Steiner, on 24 July 2012 - 08:11 PM, said:

Ah yes, another commonly used logical fallacy. This one is called the meme.

[Elbola Ierocis]

It's okay to not know everything about your own nations history. Especially one as vast as China's but don't get offended when you accuse someone else of screwing up something that was not a screw up. (dao..still chinese sword)