35 replies to this topic

[Shadowsword8]

To many, this will come as no surprise, but here goes...


Large Laser, 9 damage for 7 heat, damage ratio = 1.286

Large Pulse Laser, 10.6 damage for 8.5 hear damage/heat ratio = 1.247

The LPL also weight 2 additionnal tons, which could be tonnage for 2 DHS. 2 DHS add 2(?) to the heat cap, and also 0.28 heat dissipation per second. If that dissipation were to be added to the LL heat/damage ratio, for comparing a similar tonnage of weapons, it would mean, 9/(7-(0.28*3.25))= 1.478 as real damage/heat ratio for the Large Laser.


This difference is HUGE. When you brawl, the amount of damage you can dish out before you have to stop is by far the most important factor. Much more important than things like range or burst time. This is the main reason behind some player's belief that brawling start and stop with SRMs.

I won't do the math for small and medium pulse lasers, because a glance is enough to see that comparing their D/H ratio to standard lasers would obviously point to the same flaws.


Conclusion: PGI nerfed pulse weapons to complete uselessness, they are obsoleted even in their designated role by their more polyvalent breed. With ER lasers crippled by their outrageous heat, Standard lasers are the only viable energy weapons besides PPC.


Suggestion: Keep PL damage at the same level as normal lasers, but reduce their heat to 75 or 80% of a standard one. ER lasers pay their +50% range with +50% heat, then why, in the name of all that is freaking holy, are PL lasers paying their -50% range with +XX% heat? Shorter burst duration just doesn't cut it, their is no signifiant effect in practice for a -0.25s duration.

[Further]

I would only use LPL on some fast builds, as the beam duration is shorter and you dont need to hold it on target as long to do damage. Other than that, yes, even after buff, LPL's are pretty much useless even in brawling situations

[Raso]

Pulse lasers need a major over haul. Right now they're basically a crappy beam laser with a shorter range and slightly more damage.

I think that pulse lasers should be DPS machines. They should deal less damage and cause less heat per shot than beam lasers but have a much higher rate of fire, DPS and HPS than beam lasers.

Basically, as is pulse lasers are an extremely niche weapon.

[Felicitatem Parco]

The Pulse Lasers are meant specifically to be advantageous when used by/against fast-moving Mechs, as their only real advantage over normal lasers is their Burn Time (which was omitted in the OP).

[Shadowsword8]

Soy, on 03 July 2013 - 10:22 AM, said:

He obviously doesn't give a **** about anything but spreadsheet dmg numbers, nevermind the fact that stuff like snap shotting to pulse some tardo in the face and then turning back to shield ala arm is going to completely negate all that spreadsheet garbage he just laid out.

Really, you're a noob.

First, learn to read. I didn't omit the shorter pulse duration, I stated it was irrelevant.

Second, most brawling in the current meta is between heavy and assault mechs. When two of those mechs pound each other, a 25% shorter duration is meaningless. If WOULD be usefull against lights and mediums, if you're not skilled enough to keep your crossshair on target for a full second. If you can do that, it is, again, irrelevant.

[Coolant]

Shadowsword8, on 03 July 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

When you brawl, the amount of damage you can dish out before you have to stop is by far the most important factor.

here's a concept...how about not putting so many of them on the mech that you can fire continuously...

But, I agree, pulse lasers (medium, large) need work...

[Ransack]

I used to have LPL's on a Highlander, and MPL's on an Atlas. I have removed all Pulse lasers from my mechs. They are not worth the extra heat to me.

[xDeityx]

Coolant, on 03 July 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:

here's a concept...how about not putting so many of them on the mech that you can fire continuously...

But, I agree, pulse lasers (medium, large) need work...

Why on earth would you want to fire continuously? Staring at your target is like asking to get cored. Brawlers want to alpha everything they have and then focus on spreading damage until the cooldown of the weapon is back up and/or their heat is low enough to fire again.

[Cubivorre]

Soy, on 03 July 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

Other way around, Einstein

[Homeless Bill]

Shadowsword8, on 03 July 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

Really, you're a noob.

First, learn to read. I didn't omit the shorter pulse duration, I stated it was irrelevant.

Second, most brawling in the current meta is between heavy and assault mechs. When two of those mechs pound each other, a 25% shorter duration is meaningless. If WOULD be usefull against lights and mediums, if you're not skilled enough to keep your crossshair on target for a full second. If you can do that, it is, again, irrelevant.

He's really not a noob; honestly, I'd wager he could kick your *** with ease. But that's neither here nor there. You state beam duration is irrelevant, but you give no reasoning. An argument without a warrant is just a baseless opinion. Why doesn't it matter? The PPC is the king right now precisely because it has no beam duration and can guarantee all damage to a single component.

While I don't think the extra tonnage is worth it, if they were the same tonnage, I'd run pulse lasers on my brawlers despite the inferior damage/heat ratio and range. The shorter burn time is extremely valuable for torso twisting and for putting all the damage on one location (particularly when your enemy knows how to torso twist).

You make it sound like keeping a laser pointed at a component while moving is easy, but even the best of pilots spread damage around - especially when you're fighting someone that isn't a scrub.

[xDeityx]

Prosperity Park, on 03 July 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

their only real advantage over normal lasers is their Burn Time (which was omitted in the OP).

Omitted, you say?

Shadowsword8, on 03 July 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

Shorter burst duration just doesn't cut it, their is no signifiant effect in practice for a -0.25s duration.

[Gaan Cathal]

Shadowsword8, on 03 July 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

I won't do the math for small and medium pulse lasers, because a glance is enough to see that comparing their D/H ratio to standard lasers would obviously point to the same flaws.

Actually small pulse are in an ok place now. The lack of range loss over small beam probably has something to do with it. Medium pulse do suffer relative to medium beam when the limiting factor is your energy hardpoints. Large pulse is almost completely redundant now, you're right, but then generic large lasers aren't exactly seeing much use either.

[Mechteric]

I'd like for the duration of the large and medium pulse to be reduced a bit more honestly, that would make them a bit more worthwhile for their weight. Perhaps set them to 0.6, 0.5, and 0.4 seconds for large, medium, and small pulse respectively.

[Cubivorre]

xDeityx, on 03 July 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

Omitted, you say?

[hammerreborn]

Shadowsword8, on 03 July 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

First, learn to read. I didn't omit the shorter pulse duration, I stated it was irrelevant.
.

WTF AM I READING?

[armyof1]

While 0.75s duration vs 1s duration is nice, is it really worth the added heat and 2 extra tons? Personally I don't think so, since you'll also lose plenty of range as well. It's just too many downsides for that one upside. Frankly you might as well use PPCs instead of LPL if your ultimate goal is to have the shortest duration energy weapon. Otherwise the versatility of LL means I always go with LL or PPC over LPL.

[Villz]

typical bronze level forum post.

Pleebian's

[Tezcatli]

Extra heat, extra tonnage, shorter range for shorter beam duration and slightly higher damage. They need to lower heat or lower tonnage requirements.

[tenderloving]

Villz, on 03 July 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

typical bronze level forum post.

Pleebian's

It's plebeian.

Lrn2neckbeard

[Braggart]

all pulse lasers are worthless.

Under 90% of the gameplay, pulse lasers result in less damage per shot because of the insane hit to optimal range, resulting in anything other than brawling range to take incredible hits to DPS. The majority of the game takes place in the medium range. Where medium lasers can still hit some, large lasers deliver full damage, and med pulse cant reach, and large pulse take a drop in damage.

Pulse lasers would be worth it if they had the same stats as now, but also the same range as the regular lasers.

Without an increase in range, Pulse lasers will never ever be competitive.

Edited by Braggart, 03 July 2013 - 11:15 AM.