8 replies to this topic

[Tesunie]

Let me start by saying, I'm only placing this up to see if anyone else has been experiencing this problem as well.

The problem I've been having is I'll gain damage during a match and nothing is hitting me. I just had it happen last match before I posted. I was on Frozen City fighting along "Cowards Ridge". I was walking up and down the ridge line in various places holding off and damaging some enemy mechs (namely a Cataphrat and a Quickdraw). I'm in a Quickdraw if it's of any relevance. When crossing this ridge, I came across a spot where I was behind the ruined dropship, all my enemies are on the other side and unable to shoot me. I had just recently been shot at, but was safe here for the moment. (Had just shot through the break and was safe well on the other side.)

Suddenly, my damage display shows my right side torso armor going from orange armor to orange internals, with no hit visibly seen by me, and Betty is telling me that I've lost a heat sink. I'm not overheating with override on, I'm not being shot at, and I've been out of combat for at least 2 or 3 seconds by now. After this announcement of damage, I have enough time to look around for a source, nothing, and I have enough time to type out that I just received mystery damage, still with no enemies nearby, me standing still, and no farther damage being applied.

This isn't the first time I've seen this damage crop up either. I've had times when I duck under a ridge line in the Canyons, with nothing behind me (I do have an ally behind me, but not near me if you know what I mean), and suddenly, I've been stripped of all armor on my rear and my CT is now orange internals. I don't get a damage indicator telling me I've been hit, no damage indicator saying where the damage came from (the red bars/box that pops up when you get hit saying which direction the damage came from) and of course I turn around to see what hit me and I get greeted by a rock wall. Nothing is there. I just got damaged from nothing.

I could go on with other tales of strange damage, particularly with my Quickdraw (haven't seen it so much with other mechs, but I've been working on my Quickdraw for the past patch or two). I'll save you the other tales (as they aren't fresh on my mind and details are basically forgotten). I'll also say, to those that say to record it, I don't want to push my machine to even try, as it's got enough to run the game, and very little wiggle room beyond. I also do not wish to set up my computer to record my games, as I will never think of it when a problem occurs.

Anyway, back to my question: Has anyone else experienced this mystery damage? Could it be a Quickdraw thing?

(I'm not talking about Overheat damage, Jumping damage, falling damage, friendly fire damage, LRM/Missile damage, etc. Just... damage that seems to have absolutely no possible explanation for it.)

If this is a bug, I can not seem to repeat it reliably, it happens shortly after I've already taken damage, but is ducked out of the way and can't be hurt, and I'm fairly certain that no one else was able to hit me, as well as it doesn't register as damage from a direction and just "appears".

While on this subject, I'd also like to point out that I've had "Ammo" explode in my Quickdraw's arm when my arm got blown off once. The funny part about it was... I didn't have any "ammo" in the arm to blow up (nor a Guass Rifle). It happened once, and that was it.

(Edited for clarification)

Edited by Tesunie, 30 June 2013 - 05:29 PM.

[Phaesphoros]

This could be related to HSR. The effect of HSR on the 'Mech that gets hit is that the shot is displayed delayed to when the shooter shot it, also it might look like the shooter missed.

In the case you get hit:
The reason for these effects is that HSR rolls back the state of all 'Mechs (but the shooter's) on the server to the state when the shooter shot, compensating the shooter's latency. If the shooter hit at his client, the server should register the shot, even if your 'Mech has moved during the time it took the shooting message to get from the shooter's client to the server (and to your client).

When the server relays this shooting message to YOUR client, you'll see the shot delayed, as you have moved further but the message you receive is the shooter's position and aiming at the time he shot. This delay is caused by the shooter's latency, your latency, and possibly some processing time on the server.

If the delay is big enough, you might have moved behind cover before the message arrives at your client that the shooter has shot (and hit) you.

Edited by Phaesphoros, 30 June 2013 - 06:06 PM.

[Tesunie]

That explains some of the incidents, but not all. I've had damage appear in my rear, when I was being shot from the front (in the case of HSR). I thought HSR would at least still give me the pleasure of notifying me I've been hit with a red dash on the indicator damage direction box (whatever you wish to call it).

If it is HSR, then it needs to be tweaked so that it still shows what direction the damage came from, even if delayed. Maybe even the sound of the damage hitting you would be nice, even delayed.

My biggest question would be with my first "story" is, why did HSR register some of the damage immediately, and a massive proportion of damage well after the fact? I ask because some of his weapons did hit, and cause damage when we crossed paths, and then 2-3 seconds later a massive "extra" damage got thrown in when I was safe. Shouldn't it all have been delayed by HSR and applied at the same time (seen as it was alpha shot from what I saw on my screen), or all of it be applied immediately?

I figured it might be HSR getting a slight delay, but it was still odd the way it worked this time, if it was that.

[Phaesphoros]

Tesunie, on 30 June 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

I've had damage appear in my rear, when I was being shot from the front (in the case of HSR).

This might be a hitbox issue. Some 'Mechs like CDA and JR have CT hitboxes that can be hit if they've turned their back to you. Quickdraw AFAIK does not suffer from such issues. There are though some reports (e.g. Patch Feedback) of possible additional issues/bugs. Also be aware that HSR might make it look like you've been shot in the front, but the shooter aimed and hit at the back.

Tesunie, on 30 June 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

I thought HSR would at least still give me the pleasure of notifying me I've been hit with a red dash on the indicator damage direction box (whatever you wish to call it).

Don't know whether it does or not.

Tesunie, on 30 June 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

If it is HSR, then it needs to be tweaked so that it still shows what direction the damage came from, even if delayed. Maybe even the sound of the damage hitting you would be nice, even delayed.

I agree this could help; as I said I don't know off the top of my head if it's already the case.

Tesunie, on 30 June 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

My biggest question would be with my first "story" is, why did HSR register some of the damage immediately, and a massive proportion of damage well after the fact? I ask because some of his weapons did hit, and cause damage when we crossed paths, and then 2-3 seconds later a massive "extra" damage got thrown in when I was safe. Shouldn't it all have been delayed by HSR and applied at the same time (seen as it was alpha shot from what I saw on my screen), or all of it be applied immediately?

Even if they all came from the same 'Mech, there are ping spike issues that may lead to such effects. It's improbable, but as we don't know the exact HSR implementation, it's possible. I'd rather guess it comes from something different, e.g. another 'Mech shot at you, bug, or whatever.

Tesunie, on 30 June 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

I figured it might be HSR getting a slight delay, but it was still odd the way it worked this time, if it was that.

I can definitely say from my own experience that sometimes the delay is of the order of a second (1-2 seconds). Which is odd, as the pings only add up to < 500 ms most of the time. (That would mean either ping spikes or a lot of processing time.)

Edited by Phaesphoros, 30 June 2013 - 06:32 PM.

[Zphyr]

I notice mysterious damage every other match. Annoying!

My ping is not particularly high and most of the players have under 300 ping, so HSR should not (entirely) be related to these very delayed (over 1-2s) or "ninja" damage (no sound, no animation nor other sign). I've gotten damage from weapons (mainly PPCs and ballistics) clearly hitting a few hundred meters away from me yet seconds later I would get severe damage, apparently out of nowhere. And it's rarely just a scratch. Sometimes from near impossible angles too, like being damaged while hidden behind solid objects, in no way under fire. Never knew why or what happened.

*sigh*

[Tesunie]

I think I'll agree with you Phaesphoros, it probably is HSR doing it's thing. Just sometimes... it seems buggy to me. I don't mind taking damage I received, or dieing from damage I've taken or should have taken, it's just sometimes it seems so strange how damage sometimes works in this game. Full blast of steady on 4 med lasers and 2 large on a mech's CT (them standing still for a moment or shut down), and I sometimes barely even turn their damage meter yellow. Othertimes, I get hit by a couple of med lasers, and I've lost a pristine part (with the Quickdraw, typically a leg).

I by no means say I'm a great pilot, but I think of myself as well off. I'm fairly accurate, and sometimes you just know when you got a great hit. So please, take none of this as "I shouldn't have died at all and I should have killed them". A lot of these bugs, yes, change the game out of my favor, but sometimes I knew I was already gonna die and something like this just made it happen faster. (Like the mystery exploding arm ammo that didn't exist. I was going to die soon, but that killed me probably 30 seconds sooner.)

Zphyr, on 30 June 2013 - 06:58 PM, said:

I notice mysterious damage every other match. Annoying!

My ping is not particularly high and most of the players have under 300 ping, so HSR should not (entirely) be related to these very delayed (over 1-2s) or "ninja" damage (no sound, no animation nor other sign). I've gotten damage from weapons (mainly PPCs and ballistics) clearly hitting a few hundred meters away from me yet seconds later I would get severe damage, apparently out of nowhere. And it's rarely just a scratch. Sometimes from near impossible angles too, like being damaged while hidden behind solid objects, in no way under fire. Never knew why or what happened.

*sigh*

My ping is around the 30-40's, with frame rates (before the counter was removed for updating) was usually around 20-30ish (I think), yeah. I don't think it's ping on my end at least.

Oddly enough, seen as you mentioned ACs and PPCs, those where the two weapons I was fighting, as the Quickdraw had a pair of PPCs and the Phrat had an AC and lasers.

It's even better when you kill your target, and after they are dead for a while, and you start walking off to the next thing BAM! Damage that almost kills you. Had that happen a couple of times...

I still have to agree with HSR being the issue. I was thinking that, but wanted to kinda know if anyone else had seen this problem, or was it me just going CrAzY.

[Tarl Cabot]

Besides HSR, cicada/spider ECM with PPC/ERPPC. Unless you are facing its direction you will not see anything except the hit registration ping that shows up. The effective pilots have learned to be very patient when engaging an isolated mech or when most of the unit is facing the other direction. One of those in the water of the Forest map really sucks, especially when there is incoming fire from elsewhere.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 01 July 2013 - 02:31 AM.

[Flashback37]

One match on Frozen City: Match starts, I'm tweaking weapon configs (before the training module was released) and suddenly i'm being hit by ac2 rounds. I could hear them. I spin around in a circle thinking it was a team-mate, it's only 10-15 seconds into the match right? No mech anywhere near me. My team is all heading to the ridge. I got on the move because I'm getting peppered every second. I take 2 steps and the fire stops. I back up and...nothing. As far as I could tell from the rest of the match, no enemy was even boating ac2s. So what the hell was shooting me?

[Nebelfeuer]

Flashback37, on 01 July 2013 - 07:03 PM, said:

As far as I could tell from the rest of the match, no enemy was even boating ac2s. So what the hell was shooting me?

A Teamate?;-)

Not sure but I happened to notice some of my shots that hit the rim of an obstacle beween us(acoording to animation) damaging my targets(red reticule and paperdoll). Might be possible that shots like these are not indicated by the typical red bars and the normal taking dmg feedback. Been on the recieving end of massive invisible dmg once in a while too whith no target in LOS or close vicinity -luckyly it does not happen often.