13 replies to this topic

[Eric darkstar Marr]

Okay most of you may know this some may not.

Heat in the TT was the ultimate play balance. It was the true risk vs reward system.

With that in mind I would love to see a conversion of the old 30 top heat scale over to the 100% system we use now.

My reasons for bringing this up is simple it was the overall checks and balance system and is what is lacking currently in MW:O. Every day there is a debate here or there on X vs Y however I never see the heat scale brought up. My Idea is rather simple you take :


With this scale in mind it could be a simple addition with tweaks to make it work.
-1 Movement could be a 20% -50% movement decrease depending on heat level.
+1 to fire could be used in a few ways depending on ease for the programmers you could do a drop in convergence or you could add a long cool down to fire again or you could make it so the weapon takes longer to fire.

Now for the part players would hate but is essential Ammo explosions on + X save rolls and the shutdown on + X save rolls.

People dislike random and I am with you however to end large boats or those that stay at high heat all the time not using any true skill anymore the randomness is where the true risk vs reward system comes in.

The percentages would not have to be very high till you are near the end of the heat scale however shutdowns should start around 40% range on the heat scale we have now.

CASE would still protect from ammo explosions again this is a risk vs rewards, do you drop something so you have case or do you risk going boom.

With the way the game has headed and all the damage being done in the terms of balance I wish the true game balancer took place with the simple heat scale.


I would like to here opinions on this and discuss why this would or would not work or maybe you have your own idea to alter the heat scale.My last note on this is; Keep in mind in TT you had full customization (depending on friends and GM) and the only thing that kept mechs in check from going so far out in the deep end like we have in the game was the heat scale nothing else mattered.

[Mechteric]

I really hope we get some heat scale modifiers as well. At the very least speed reduction would be handy, Mechwarrior 4 did this and it was pretty effective.

Another idea is that when enemy mechs shutdown due to overheating they should remain on the radar until they drop to a certain heat % (say 50%?). This way you could still use shutdown to ambush.

[Pinselborste]

you Forget that in mwo you cant fire some medium lasers and be heat neutral. in TT 16 dhs would allow you to fire 10 med lasers nonstop. so the whole heatsystem would Need to be changed.

[Eric darkstar Marr]

Pinselborste, on 01 July 2013 - 08:01 AM, said:

you Forget that in mwo you cant fire some medium lasers and be heat neutral. in TT 16 dhs would allow you to fire 10 med lasers nonstop. so the whole heatsystem would Need to be changed.

Oh I understand that however for this type of game we should never have true heat neutral since it is live vs turn based and a 30 point scale vs a 100% gauge. It more comes into some checks and balance using the heat scale base form.

[Mechteric]

Pinselborste, on 01 July 2013 - 08:01 AM, said:

you Forget that in mwo you cant fire some medium lasers and be heat neutral. in TT 16 dhs would allow you to fire 10 med lasers nonstop. so the whole heatsystem would Need to be changed.

there's a missing factor in that translation though, in BT it was assumed you'd fire each weapon once per 10 seconds or so. But in MWO you can fire at a much faster rate, and as a result you do more damage and build up more heat in that space of time.

[Pinselborste]

but the damage before shutdown is totally off, cause of that a mech with more PPCs and less heatsinks would deal more damage before shutdown than a mech with less weapons and more heatsinks. Dissipation is too low and cap too high.

[jollyrancher1]

If you are unhappy with the high alpha pinpoint ppc/large laser boats look at this thread and post your opinion on what you think the best option is and why.
http://mwomercs.com/...-meta-gameplay/

[Eric darkstar Marr]

jollyrancher1, on 01 July 2013 - 07:41 PM, said:

If you are unhappy with the high alpha pinpoint ppc/large laser boats look at this thread and post your opinion on what you think the best option is and why.
http://mwomercs.com/...-meta-gameplay/

I am not unhappy about it, I use a few builds some are considered cheese some are original no one else typically uses. This was about an observation and how all i hear in the game and a lot on the forums is about the boats and such.

The fact is heat is the only balancer around and they dropped the ball on it.

[MCXL]

You can look at the thread in my sig and see that addressing the heat scale is something that the devs don't seem all that interested in doing. I mean the thread got featured on PAR's "The Cut" and I never heard a word from a dev about it. I have poured my money, heart and soul into this game and trying to help make it a better place and I feel a bit like the devs have done nothing to recognize people like myself, Munstrum Ridcully etc...

Right now the heat scale in MWO is a glorified mana system where if you go to 0/negative mana you stun yourself.

To emphasize what heat really means they could relatively easily implement a number of effects on the mech and the pilot to really solidfy that heat is the main limiting factor of these truly super weapon systems.

• Maneuvering penalties
  
• Movement penalties (small ~10-20%)
  
• Accuracy penalties (number one best idea)
  
• Vision penalties. (Heat distortion looking out of your mech, or clouds of steam totally covering your vision when in water or rain)
  
• ammo cook off (this is what should happen on actual overheat, and should be the primary disadvantage of gauss, where instead of losing some ammo, you lose the gun)
  
• other ideas?

Nothing can be done to make the heat scale more punishing right now however, because single heat sinks simply don't dissipate heat. Once you are above 50% heat with 10 singles it takes FOREVER to come back down, meaning that with all sorts of stock mechs you would be stuck at an even more severely handicapped state.


Being able to build a heat neutral mech relatively easily on SHS is actually the best way to make DHS a side grade rather than the essential upgrade they are now.

Edited by MCXL, 01 July 2013 - 08:48 PM.

[Borengar629]

I gotta admit that I kinda like the system as it is now, since I think a TT and a MMO need to follow different sets of rules.
But I really think that heat penelties should be implemented.
First of all I think if you exceed the 80% marker it should effect your pilot and your mech. That mechs maximum speed should be reduced by at least 25%. Cooldown on your weapons should go up by 25% and your vision should blur so you can't get a clear shot.
But I don't like the idea of maneuvering penalties. Your mech sould act like an intelligent mechanical device should by preventing you from producing more heat by reducing system performance. And you should really feel the suffering of your pilot who sits in a cockpit where the air has over 50 degrees celsius.
Maneuveing penalty is in my opinion to much TT. Real time action and turn based dice rolling are not the same thing.
But on top of that I think pressing the override should be a lot more dangerous in terms of your reactor could blow up the next time unless you manage it to cool down below the 80% marker again. Overriding should have only two purposes. Once to finish an enemy befor he finishes you off. So to say as a desperation move. And to make an attempt to retreat from battle so you could go into hideout and cool down. As it is now it is a save way for PPC-stalkers to get their third alpha on the way. This is stupid.

[Eric darkstar Marr]

So far it seems to be agreed on the game needs more heat penalties it seems.

[Terror Teddy]

1. Lower max heat
2. Increase heat dissipation
3. Add proper heat scale
4. Add risk for pilot blackout and having his mech move and shoot randomly for a few seconds before pilot wakes up

[DeadlyNerd]

People seem to fail to realize that without a much more restrictive hard point system, there's always going to be a cookie cutter weapon that can be fit on almost any mech. It doesn't matter how much the heat is nerfed as long as there's a sandbox mode allowing for a workaround.

[Eric darkstar Marr]

DeadlyNerd, on 03 July 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:

People seem to fail to realize that without a much more restrictive hard point system, there's always going to be a cookie cutter weapon that can be fit on almost any mech. It doesn't matter how much the heat is nerfed as long as there's a sandbox mode allowing for a workaround.

See heres the problem with that the har points system will mean one day all we will see on the battlefield is Warhawks (Masakari) It comes with 4x ER PPC so even if we put a limiter in now one day there will be a mech that runs cooler and has a better PPC and it will be a standard mech. So to me hardpoints is the overall weakest fix. Oh don't forget the Banshees' either.

So please layout how hardpoints are the overall best adjustment option when we have stock mechs sooner then later that are better then whats fielded today?

Heat is the true game balancer period ad some of the TT value mods in to our heat system and a lot of problems will be solved.

Risk versus Reward my friend.