16 replies to this topic

[Deztroyez]

I've been playing MWO for quite awhile now, and it seems that the PPC alphas are quite troublesome. I dont mind the damage and all, but the speed is just too fast. I'm not sure whether its supposed to be that fast, but as I remember in mech commander games, they were flying at speeds that looked more believable.

I was just wondering: why don't they tone down the projectile speed to around closed beta times, or at least half of its current speed? That way sniping with PPC's would require more skill and at least would give the pilots some hopeful chance of dodging them,and also hopefully prevent them from being paired with the dual PPC and gauss combo that make armor into paper.

Any thoughts on this or has this been discussed before?

[AnnoyingCat]

so... how fast thunder travels again?

[Hellcat420]

ppc projectiles are supposed to be very fast. a ppc is essentially a proton rail gun. it causes damage from both heat and impact force.

Edited by Hellcat420, 01 July 2013 - 09:06 AM.

[DarkJaguar]

If anything, PPCs are too slow. The problem is that PGI has opted for raw damage numbers instead of true-to-cannon DPS numbers. A PPC should be 1DPS per cannon (the 10 damage it does is over 10 seconds time).

[Homeless Bill]

Gauss ==> 1750m/s
PPC ==> 1500m/s

It should not be easier to snipe with a low-tonnage, infinite ammo weapon than a heavy, ammo-based one that explodes when it dies. The Gauss has basically been designated as a sniper weapon, and I see no reason it should be inferior to the PPC in that role.

Additionally, hitting **** with PPCs is simply too easy. They're relatively low-skill to use, and it just shouldn't be that way for a weapon with good range and infinite ammo.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

1200 m/s is ideal for game balance.

and for the record "the speed of thunder" is 343.2 m/s, so I guess I am being generous.

[Loxx]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 01 July 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:

1200 m/s is ideal for game balance.

and for the record "the speed of thunder" is 343.2 m/s, so I guess I am being generous.

Haha, beat me to the punch, however I think he meant lightening.

[DarkJaguar]

Homeless Bill, on 01 July 2013 - 10:54 AM, said:

Gauss ==> 1750m/s
PPC ==> 1500m/s

It should not be easier to snipe with a low-tonnage, infinite ammo weapon than a heavy, ammo-based one that explodes when it dies. The Gauss has basically been designated as a sniper weapon, and I see no reason it should be inferior to the PPC in that role.

Additionally, hitting **** with PPCs is simply too easy. They're relatively low-skill to use, and it just shouldn't be that way for a weapon with good range and infinite ammo.

Yes, it should be easier to hit with the energy weapon. However, the gauss should deal 15 damage in 10 seconds (1.5DPS) with 1 heat per 10 seconds (0.1 HPS) whereas the PPC should deal 10 damage in 10 seconds (1.0DPS) at 10 heat per 10 seconds (1.0 HPS).

[TehSBGX]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 01 July 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:

1200 m/s is ideal for game balance.

and for the record "the speed of thunder" is 343.2 m/s, so I guess I am being generous.

That seems about right actually. The main tweak PPCs need is a slower projectile, sniping should require a great deal of skill but I'm kinda meh and my elo is dreadful, yet I see at least two ppc builds per round. That should hint something is off right there when PPC boating is common even in lower elo ranges.

[Jonny Taco]

DarkJaguar, on 01 July 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

If anything, PPCs are too slow. The problem is that PGI has opted for raw damage numbers instead of true-to-cannon DPS numbers. A PPC should be 1DPS per cannon (the 10 damage it does is over 10 seconds time).

Yo, just in, TT values will never work in an MMO FPS.

I still can't beleive that ignorant and pathetic opinion is still here on these boards...

Let me spell it out again for you. TT VALUES WILL NEVER WORK IN THIS GAME.

[Unbound Inferno]

DarkJaguar, on 01 July 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

Yes, it should be easier to hit with the energy weapon. However, the gauss should deal 15 damage in 10 seconds (1.5DPS) with 1 heat per 10 seconds (0.1 HPS) whereas the PPC should deal 10 damage in 10 seconds (1.0DPS) at 10 heat per 10 seconds (1.0 HPS).

Is there a place that lists that DPS ratio already? Or did you do some rough math on that answer?

[DarkJaguar]

Unbound Inferno, on 01 July 2013 - 12:38 PM, said:

Is there a place that lists that DPS ratio already? Or did you do some rough math on that answer?

A turn in table top lasts 10 seconds. In those 10 seconds, a PPC deals 10 damage, 10/10=1, or 1.0 DPS.

lartfor, on 01 July 2013 - 12:34 PM, said:

Yo, just in, TT values will never work in an MMO FPS.

I still can't beleive that ignorant and pathetic opinion is still here on these boards...

Let me spell it out again for you. TT VALUES WILL NEVER WORK IN THIS GAME.

Why not?

[zztophat]

DarkJaguar, on 01 July 2013 - 01:35 PM, said:

Why not?

There are almost too many reasons to list.

But the two big ones are:
There are no randomized hit locations, in MWO your shots land where they aim.

Using the timing from TT would make MWO incredibly, unbelievably slow and boring. 10 seconds between shots should be nightmarish.

[ObsidianSpectre]

Slowing down PPC speed seems to me to be ideal for game balance. It keeps PPCs scary and effective against bigger, slower mechs, while giving lights and mediums an advantage against them. Slowing down their speed would hit two broken parts of the meta at once.

[DarkJaguar]

zztophat, on 01 July 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

There are almost too many reasons to list.

But the two big ones are:
There are no randomized hit locations, in MWO your shots land where they aim.

Using the timing from TT would make MWO incredibly, unbelievably slow and boring. 10 seconds between shots should be nightmarish.

using TT DPS numbers does not mean 10 second recycle times. That's foolish of you to even think. Using TT DPS numbers means adjusting weapons damage values to the recycle times until you get TT numbers.

As far as "random hit locations goes", not using TT numbers isn't going to fix that, here's why...



Please note that every every weapon in MWO with the exception of the SRM-4 and SRM-6 (which are actually fairly well balanced at the moment) is HIGHER than TT DPS, even adjusted for the doubled armor PGI implemented. One of the largest offender is the Ultra AC5, a weapon that I think most people will agree is pretty OP.

Now that you've been informed by math, do you wish to continue your ignorant rant about how I'm an ***** for suggesting that perhaps FASA/Catalyst and 30+ years of balancing shouldn't be tossed out the window?

Edited by DarkJaguar, 01 July 2013 - 02:27 PM.

[zztophat]

DarkJaguar, on 01 July 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

FASA/Catalyst and 30+ years of balancing shouldn't be tossed out the window?

Yes. It should.

At least until we start taking polite little turns shooting at each other and moving around via hexes.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

What about making PPCs fire a "concentrated stream of protons or ions at a target, causing damage through both thermal and kinetic energy".

So basically like a hit scan Laser. The key is tuning the stream duration to the PPC animation we already have.