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Flamer Damage Up On Hot Mechs


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Poll: Flamer Damage Up On Hot Mechs (13 member(s) have cast votes)

In favor of this concept?

  1. Yes (11 votes [84.62%])

    Percentage of vote: 84.62%

  2. No (2 votes [15.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.38%

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#1 MacKoga

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 03:54 PM

If flamers can't cause shutdown how about:
  • An enemy with low heat mostly receives a heat increase, with minor damage.
  • As heat rises, or perhaps once the flamer heat limiter is reached, flamers start doing significant amounts of damage to that mech, while it is running hot.
  • Damage should be even higher if heat is over 100% on a mech.

This would make flamers tactically fun, not inherently over powered, but also potentially quite powerful if battle conditions work well. Also the threat of high damage flamers would do more to cause mechs to back off on shooting than currently happens, which would make them gain back more defensive / tactical value.

#2 blinkin

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 05:39 PM

10 cool points for coming up with an original way to look at the flamer issue.

this could turn the flamer into the PPC killer.

#3 Bhael Fire

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 05:40 PM

Yes, anything to make them more useful.

#4 Owlfeathers

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 06:16 PM

I see no issue with this. Also, it would be a good indirect nerf to PPC boats without doing too much harm to people using PPCs in smaller numbers.

#5 Nothing Whatsoever

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 07:11 PM

It would affect others builds that run hot that don't carry PPC's and/or ERPPC's though.

One example is this non-PPC AWS-8Q. The same gos for the HBK-4P and other currently toasty running loadouts.

#6 MacKoga

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 08:22 PM

View PostPraetor Shepard, on 01 July 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

It would affect others builds that run hot that don't carry PPC's and/or ERPPC's though.

One example is this non-PPC AWS-8Q. The same gos for the HBK-4P and other currently toasty running loadouts.


But isn't that ultimately the role of flamers? To provide advantage when fighting heat-sensitive mechs?

Depending on implementation, flamers could be more effective vs. builds that alpha and shut down than just run close to shutting down. This would help make flamers more curtailed to going after PPC boats than ML hunchbacks.

#7 Nothing Whatsoever

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 10:35 PM

View PostMacKoga, on 01 July 2013 - 08:22 PM, said:


But isn't that ultimately the role of flamers? To provide advantage when fighting heat-sensitive mechs?

Depending on implementation, flamers could be more effective vs. builds that alpha and shut down than just run close to shutting down. This would help make flamers more curtailed to going after PPC boats than ML hunchbacks.


My concern is with how damage will be done, and to make sure that they can be both useful for it's tonnage, yet hard to abuse.

From what I've read on Flamers, I think it is interesting how they are powered by a mech's reactor, and although sarna has a damage listing at 2, I'm okay with how Flamers work against how I understand how mech armor is supposed to work. So since we already have a crit system, I say let's tinker with those values to boost flamers along with other effects like raising an enemy's heat level.

So, what I would consider for Flamers is probably keep the damage at .70 to armor and utilize the crit system to do increased damage to Internals and Items than what we currently have (looking forward to other items in the future). smurfy's says Flamer Crits can do .77 damage 14% of the time, 1.54 damage 8% of the time and 2.31 damage 3% of the time.


So instead, I'd like to test how Flamers might perform if instead we could at least do 1 damage 19% of the time, 1.74 damage 11% of the time and 2.31 damage 7% of the time. Maybe tinker more here to improve performance as needed.


Next I would reduce the Heat to .75 maybe even .50, so that firing the Flamer does not over heat your own mech faster than the enemy, and can be used better with a mix of other weapons, at least other energy weapons.

Then increase the Max Range to 75, so full damage still goes out to 64, but you could still do some damage out to 75.



From here, I've read other ideas where heat could grow exponentially to a certain cap level, so the greater number of flamers the high the cap goes, to mimic the heat pumps on the enemy mech getting overloaded with no where to dump the heat. It could be something where flamers could have a combination of effects.

So, one effect could be where one flamer on target prevents the enemy mech from going below 35% heat (plus ambient levels, so it's higher on hot maps) on the heat scale. So then two flamers cap at 45%, three caps at 55%, maybe up to 5 flamers keeping a mechs heat at 75% and more flamers could not go beyond maybe 80 or 85%, (plus ambient heat) on the heat scale.

Then the second effect could be where the longer you can hold the flamer on target, the enemies heat will slowly also rise as it receives damage towards a hard cap level somewhere around 70 to 85%.



This is more or less what I've had in mind and the numbers should be played around with so that Flamers have a functional niche in the game and hopefully hard to abuse also.

#8 Mudhutwarrior

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 02:48 AM

Why should the flamer only affect these bulds and ballistic boats get a pass? I get the PPC issue but most often my quick death comes from ac 40s or macro ac2 boats or generqal gang banging by pug stompers.

#9 blinkin

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 11:45 AM

View PostMudhutwarrior, on 02 July 2013 - 02:48 AM, said:

Why should the flamer only affect these bulds and ballistic boats get a pass? I get the PPC issue but most often my quick death comes from ac 40s or macro ac2 boats or generqal gang banging by pug stompers.

not every change, has to fix every issue the game has ever had.

#10 MacKoga

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 04:18 PM

View PostPraetor Shepard, on 01 July 2013 - 10:35 PM, said:

My concern is with how damage will be done, and to make sure that they can be both useful for it's tonnage, yet hard to abuse.


All weapon systems should be abusable, in the right situation. Ideally, you have two teams of mechs, all loaded out to be tactically better than other mechs, if the pilot can manage to get into the right tactical situation. So long as the advantages are relatively equally overpowered, everything is fun and in balance.

Flamers, for example, have the same hardpoint, slots, and weight factor as a medium laser. But a medium laser will ALWAYS out range it. In a one on one fight, a mech with one medium laser vs. a mech with one flamer, if the medium laser mech can stay out of range, it will always win, abusing its range advantage, regarless of what kind of damage or heat effects the flamer may have.

This is fine and good. So long as flamers are indeed a much better choice than the medium laser, in the right situation.

PPCs and high heat builds have been good in a broader set of conditions than is probably optimal, which is why I like the notion of flamers being more useful against hot mechs. Additionally, the majority of heat effects that Sarna talks about are for Battletech, which, in my experience, is a far more brutal, punishing, heat management system than what we have on MWO.


View PostMudhutwarrior, on 02 July 2013 - 02:48 AM, said:

Why should the flamer only affect these bulds and ballistic boats get a pass? I get the PPC issue but most often my quick death comes from ac 40s or macro ac2 boats or generqal gang banging by pug stompers.


Flamers should affect any heat-sensitive build, so if that AC/2 boat is running hot, my opinion is that a flamer should be just as useful there as something that is running equivalently hot but with different weapons. Or so I'd make it were I a lead design on MWO.





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