41 replies to this topic

[Sir Trent Howell]

I am absolutely sick of running into 6 assault Mechs in every damn 8man I'm in. The splash page here claims this is a "thinking person's shooter." There's hardly much thinking going on in these drops. It's just plant your Mech and blast away in assaults and whoever brings more tonnage wins. The only alternative is to cap them, but that's only IF the enemy team moves far enough off its cap and let's face it, most teams just turtle up within 500 meters with all their assaults until one side gets bored and wanders into it.

This is utterly shameful and it needs to stop.

Yes, you could say, "But Trent, you just need to take all those assault Mechs too and play the meta."

It's a boring, tired excuse and I'm sick of hearing it. Can we please give teams a reason to take something other than assault Mechs. It's just been getting worse and worse.

[zztophat]

I don't use any assaults, and I have a positive K/D and W/L.

So after a thousand games I either get carried an unusual amount or tonnage is not the only important factor in deciding the outcome of games.

Edited by zztophat, 01 July 2013 - 06:28 PM.

[FupDup]

While I do definitely want to see smaller weight classes being used more, tonnage limits don't actually accomplish that. You see, the reason people spam heavies and assaults is because they:

1. Are more fun to play due to their kill-kill-kill mentality (lights and mediums need to worry a lot more about manuevering and positioning to survive)
2. Can withstand more alpha strikes before dying
3. Can dish out larger alpha strikes
4. Are bigger (people like overcompensating, particularly Lyrans)
5. Get paid more due to better killing power


Tonnage limits don't solve any of those issues above, unfortunately. Tonnage limits will just make the fatties wait in que longer while they wait for brave lights and mediums willing to be their canon fodder.

Edited by FupDup, 01 July 2013 - 06:25 PM.

[Roland]

Quote

The splash page here claims this is a "thinking person's shooter."

As in:
I think you better bring a bigger mech.

[Victor Morson]

Sir Trent Howell, on 01 July 2013 - 06:20 PM, said:

I am absolutely sick of running into 6 assault Mechs in every damn 8man I'm in. The splash page here claims this is a "thinking person's shooter." There's hardly much thinking going on in these drops. It's just plant your Mech and blast away in assaults and whoever brings more tonnage wins. The only alternative is to cap them, but that's only IF the enemy team moves far enough off its cap and let's face it, most teams just turtle up within 500 meters with all their assaults until one side gets bored and wanders into it.

This is utterly shameful and it needs to stop.

Yes, you could say, "But Trent, you just need to take all those assault Mechs too and play the meta."

It's a boring, tired excuse and I'm sick of hearing it. Can we please give teams a reason to take something other than assault Mechs. It's just been getting worse and worse.

I'll agree to this, and have posted at least two similar threads. I've even take a band-aid of just weight capping 8 mans to 500 tons or something that's still excessive, but at least would prevent the "8 Highlander Atlas camping trip."

It really does force you to respond in kind or fight with at least one hand behind your back, since your scouts having nothing to do at all.

EDIT: I don't see you post much in this forum Trent, but I warn you now, "Ye who enter here abandon all hope." By page two you will likely have a lot of people insisting that this is totally fine and that you can overcome it through being super awesome in your Frakenmedium.

Edited by Victor Morson, 01 July 2013 - 06:32 PM.

[Victor Morson]

zztophat, on 01 July 2013 - 06:24 PM, said:

I don't use any assaults, and I have a positive K/D and W/L.

So after a thousand games I either get carried an unusual amount or tonnage is not the only important factor in deciding the outcome of games.

Damn. It thought it'd start by page 2, but it has already begun.

God I wish I could attach the Omen music to this post.

[Sir Trent Howell]

Victor Morson, on 01 July 2013 - 06:30 PM, said:

EDIT: I don't see you post much in this forum Trent, but I warn you now, "Ye who enter here abandon all hope." By page two you will likely have a lot of people insisting that this is totally fine and that you can overcome it through being super awesome in your Frakenmedium.

I don't post much anywhere often. Most of the veteran worthwhile pilots have fled to other games leaving general trash left behind, with few exceptions. Browse the NBT forums lately? It's about reached that level of idiocy.

Must be a cold day in hell when Morson and I see eye to eye on something.

Edited by Sir Trent Howell, 01 July 2013 - 06:37 PM.

[Ranek Blackstone]

FupDup, on 01 July 2013 - 06:25 PM, said:

While I do definitely want to see smaller weight classes being used more, tonnage limits don't actually accomplish that. You see, the reason people spam heavies and assaults is because they:

1. Are more fun to play due to their kill-kill-kill mentality (lights and mediums need to worry a lot more about manuevering and positioning to survive)
2. Can withstand more alpha strikes before dying
3. Can dish out larger alpha strikes
4. Are bigger (people like overcompensating, particularly Lyrans)
5. Get paid more due to better killing power


Tonnage limits don't solve any of those issues above, unfortunately. Tonnage limits will just make the fatties wait in que longer while they wait for brave lights and mediums willing to be their canon fodder.

The other issue is that you can't control what the other guys on your team own for mechs. I don't own anything that masses less then 60 tons. Some of my drop mates don't own anything that isn't an assault.

Plus you add time between matches as the match maker tries to juggle all the groups it has and get them below that tonnage cap. Maybe a max tonnage for pre-mades would help, but I'm not holding my breath

[Victor Morson]

FupDup, on 01 July 2013 - 06:25 PM, said:

Tonnage limits don't solve any of those issues above, unfortunately. Tonnage limits will just make the fatties wait in que longer while they wait for brave lights and mediums willing to be their canon fodder.

I think what Trent is asking for is a weight restriction on 8 man drops. Which wouldn't have the line or que problem, because the teams would just have to deal with it and sort the tonnage out themselves.

I think that'd be a huge first step.

EDIT: Also we have our differences when it comes to management, but overall we're more or less on the same page when it comes to meta, Trent. heh

[Zerstorer Stallin]

Working as intended!!

[Victor Morson]

Ranek Blackstone, on 01 July 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

The other issue is that you can't control what the other guys on your team own for mechs. I don't own anything that masses less then 60 tons. Some of my drop mates don't own anything that isn't an assault.

Obviously they'd need a quick reference UI to figure out who needs to ton down/up. I have no problem with allowing underweight drops, obviously, so maybe if one guy tons down and you go 20 tons under, you can fit your 60 tonner in.

If you are literally so casual that you only own one tonnage of 'mech, however, I'd advise that you consider just dropping in a trial to fill the gap. If you're serious enough for this to matter much to you, it might be worth diversifying your classes.

I'll be honest, I don't even own a light, but I own a nice range of 50-100 tonners and have zero problems fitting into even configs as light as 375.

Ranek Blackstone, on 01 July 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

Plus you add time between matches as the match maker tries to juggle all the groups it has and get them below that tonnage cap. Maybe a max tonnage for pre-mades would help, but I'm not holding my breath

Again, for 8-mans (or 12 mans) until we get a private lobby system, all we want is a tonnage ceiling. No additional stress on matchmaker whatsoever - every premade is capped at, say, 500/700 for 12s (as a number to throw out there, obviously not carved in stone.) Something to allow reasonably heavy builds but not allow you to exclusively Assault.

[CancR]

FupDup, on 01 July 2013 - 06:25 PM, said:

While I do definitely want to see smaller weight classes being used more, tonnage limits don't actually accomplish that. You see, the reason people spam heavies and assaults is because they:

1. Are more fun to play due to their kill-kill-kill mentality (lights and mediums need to worry a lot more about manuevering and positioning to survive)
2. Can withstand more alpha strikes before dying
3. Can dish out larger alpha strikes
4. Are bigger (people like overcompensating, particularly Lyrans)
5. Get paid more due to better killing power


Tonnage limits don't solve any of those issues above, unfortunately. Tonnage limits will just make the fatties wait in que longer while they wait for brave lights and mediums willing to be their canon fodder.

CoD mentality in a nut shell. We don't want skill, we want easy cuz easy is fun.

[Jaguar Prime]

Sir Trent Howell, on 01 July 2013 - 06:20 PM, said:

I am absolutely sick of running into 6 assault Mechs in every damn 8man I'm in. The splash page here claims this is a "thinking person's shooter." There's hardly much thinking going on in these drops. It's just plant your Mech and blast away in assaults and whoever brings more tonnage wins. The only alternative is to cap them, but that's only IF the enemy team moves far enough off its cap and let's face it, most teams just turtle up within 500 meters with all their assaults until one side gets bored and wanders into it.

This is utterly shameful and it needs to stop.

Yes, you could say, "But Trent, you just need to take all those assault Mechs too and play the meta."

It's a boring, tired excuse and I'm sick of hearing it. Can we please give teams a reason to take something other than assault Mechs. It's just been getting worse and worse.

But.. But... Trent !!! Everyone knows you prefer medium and light mechs and shy away from heavies and assaults!!!!! roflmbo

He is right though, a tonnage limit would address a lot of the immediate problems in this game. The mediums that people claim are useless will actually find a place with a tonnage limit. More tactical matches being played are the first things I can see happening.

For me, the best way to describe it is MWO is like playing in the open server's of MW4 where who ever had the biggest mechs with the hardest hitting weapons win. Then there were the NBT variable tonnage limited servers. The fights there became more tactical, lasted longer and you saw pretty much all weight classes represented. (Keep in mind I said weight classes, not all mechs.)

This is just my experience. I played only on the open servers in the beginning of MW4. I was getting burned out quickly with the style of play and about to quit. Then a friend got me to join NBT and I started playing on there servers. I played for 7 years nonstop after that.

I can't see a tonnage limit hurting this game, only helping it.

[Sir Trent Howell]

Ranek Blackstone, on 01 July 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

The other issue is that you can't control what the other guys on your team own for mechs. I don't own anything that masses less then 60 tons. Some of my drop mates don't own anything that isn't an assault.

Plus you add time between matches as the match maker tries to juggle all the groups it has and get them below that tonnage cap. Maybe a max tonnage for pre-mades would help, but I'm not holding my breath

If you read my post, you'd have picked up that I said this should apply to 8mans and 12 mans by extension. I could care less what happens in pug matches. I've stepped in things more intelligent that dealing with the average pug match.

[R Razor]

When I no longer have to worry about rounding a hill and running into a PPC boat Stalker or an AC-40 (possibly the gayest Mech build in the game) Jag then I'll stop running mechs with enough armor to withstand that initial blast and allow me a chance to retreat and fight back.................until then, I'm staying in assaults.

[Victor Morson]

R Razor, on 01 July 2013 - 07:47 PM, said:

When I no longer have to worry about rounding a hill and running into a PPC boat Stalker or an AC-40 (possibly the gayest Mech build in the game) Jag then I'll stop running mechs with enough armor to withstand that initial blast and allow me a chance to retreat and fight back.................until then, I'm staying in assaults.

It continues.

You can't take my assault, the AC/20 Jags will get me!

You do realize that AC/20 Jags are pretty much the single least durable heavy build in the whole game, right?

[zztophat]

Victor Morson, on 01 July 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

It continues.

You can't take my assault, the AC/20 Jags will get me!

You do realize that AC/20 Jags are pretty much the single least durable heavy build in the whole game, right?

If not the most, however some missile boats are just as fragile.

[R Razor]

Yup,

Doesn't change the fact that you have to be able to survive what they dish out if you come around a corner and run into one that is protected by friendly ECM before you can use that lack of durability against them.

I fully understand the reason people run these, they don't require an inordinate amount of skill, just hide behind friendly assaults or under an ECM umbrella, line up the cross hairs when a target gets close enough, press a button, rinse and repeat. They are PERFECT for new folks in that they can build confidence, and they are perfect for folks that lack ability as well, but they shouldn't exist for several reasons.

You can be as condescending as you wish, it's the internet after all.

[Gaden Phoenix]

Victor Morson, on 01 July 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

It continues. You can't take my assault, the AC/20 Jags will get me! You do realize that AC/20 Jags are pretty much the single least durable heavy build in the whole game, right?

The AC40 mech is an ambush mech with massive amounts of damage as for now, even if they die for fun. Sadly for now, people either run from a AC40 mech or ignore it or do not even know it is there.

A proper team will focus on it ASAP, and kill it. Nut that not really happening

[Victor Morson]

R Razor, on 01 July 2013 - 08:48 PM, said:

Doesn't change the fact that you have to be able to survive what they dish out if you come around a corner and run into one that is protected by friendly ECM before you can use that lack of durability against them.
...

You can be as condescending as you wish, it's the internet after all.

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