58 replies to this topic

[Victor Morson]

I am resurrecting my first petition, found here, as also brought up here.

Long story short, the polls consistently reflect that the majority of players - both hardcore and casual - feel PGI has lost their way with weapon balance, and worse yet, fails to understand their own game and how it plays out in practical environments.

Or is this, what I can vouch typical matches look, really what PGI pictures as "The best state the game has ever been in?"

Original Thread


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So what is this petition actually? Instead of rewriting all that I have in the past, I am simply requesting that PGI gives the community a detailed, gun by gun, mech by mech statement of how THEY are feeling about each weapon system - and then open avenues for some moderated discussion, be it survey emails or other information gathering to see how it syncs with the community.

I'd really like to request that if they contact players in multiple "skill brackets" that they consider keeping that in mind, taking ease-of-use and frustration feedback from the newer players and actual gun balance feedback from the more veteran players.

While I think it's cool to request ideas on how to improve things, ultimately I'm not saying PGI should do everything they want them to, or that they should dictate the game. However, if they see very logical, real problems pointed out with weapons, 'mechs or systems that they actually listen and make addressing them a priority.

The game balance is a total mess right now. The only people who don't realize it are very new, and when they do, they will likely tire very quickly. MW:O is bleeding people because of balance and we get very little in the way of any changes that are needed, or even, make sense - insanity such as that "Alpha nerf" that won't do a thing to snipers (but punish other builds) is why we have doubts!

ED: Yes, I am still annoyed PGI hasn't responded to literally hundreds of complaints about their "Alpha nerf system" given it is literally the dumbest thing ever committed to this website, with no practical purpose, no penalties against snipers and destroying perfectly fine medium builds. Ugh.

--

TL/DR: Sign if you want PGI to state their views on each gun and chassis, and then take some feedback from players of varying skill in return to see how they match up.

[Iron Hyena]

PGI states their intentions through their work.

Its not as fast or as equal as most of the whiners on the forum want, but its slow, deliberate, and careful.

It will get where it needs to be on their own, and I trust them to put it in the perfect place.

[R Razor]

I don't think we have any right to demand anything from PGI. It is their game, they will design it as they see fit. If we don't like it then we have the option of ceasing to play it. If they are any kind of capable in the field they operate in, they will make changes based upon game performance from an economic stand point, not base upon a bunch of whining on an internet forum.

[Appogee]

Good idea. At the moment we can ''construct'' an approximation of their views on some things, from various command chair posts, tweets etc. But a more methodical readout from them would help us all understand the game's direction.

Unfortunately I think it is unlikely that PGI will meet this request, for the following reasons:

1. Most game variables are interdependent. Changing one changes the others, sometimes in unseen ways. So stating at one time how all should change is risky for them because...

2. They cop a lot of flak - rightfully, I believe - when they state their intentions only to change them later.

3. They like to keep some things as surprises, for promotional/news value.

[Roland]

I hear big things are coming tomorrow.
BIG MOTHER ******* THINGS

Or maybe just a redesign of the user interface. Whatever.

[DragunSlayer]

So you want them to state each weapons, each nuance of the game so we can poop on them separately and in detail? Yeah, I bet they're lining up to do that.

Even if they told you that the game was going to go EXACTLY the way you were hoping...

See those 10,000 dudes over there? They want it to go a different way. And those forum warrior guys over there? They hate all those things about the weapons you love.

No way. I'm really hoping that its a Community Warfare, planetary league, fighting over territory, where how many mechs you own and can afford to bring in a dropship matter.... and that is split off from a ladder league that also exists... All this... "weapon tweaking" is really small potatoes compared to that kind of long view.

[Victor Morson]

Dornhal, on 01 July 2013 - 08:56 PM, said:

PGI states their intentions through their work.

Its not as fast or as equal as most of the whiners on the forum want, but its slow, deliberate, and careful.


It will get where it needs to be on their own, and I trust them to put it in the perfect place.

Some mood music...



... slow & deliberate? Let's look at how they've handled everything.

LRMs
Massively overpowered
Massively overpowered, completely stopped AMS, making it a wash
Completely underpowered
Completely overpowered
Just needing a small speed buff...
Gutted to 0.7.. Depressingly underpowered
Massively over buffed
Underbuffed, needing a small damage buff

Pulse Lasers
Completely too hot and not worth using
Completely too cool and better than everything
Damage buffed with heat, making them unusable
Heat reduced, making them too good
Head reintroduced, making them too bad
"Normalization" that undid everything back to 0, only fixing the SPL and none of the others.

PPCs
Horrendously underpowered
Moderately useful
Even worse
KING OF THE WORLD
.
.
.
KING OF THE WORLD

ER Large Laser
Heat and duration is way too high
Duration and heat are brought down but not enough
Heat continues to go up and down
Goto Start: Heat and duration is way too high

SRMs
Really useful
Flight path makes using them way harder, still useful
Really useful
Damage dropped, total crap
HSR and Pattern changes, still underpowered

... but I could keep going with weapons. Let's go to Equipment!

ECM
ECM hard locks all missiles, killing LRM and Streak boats and forcing ECM on everyone
ECM gets TAG weakness
ECM gets BAP weakness
ECM is now pretty much sub-par, hard-locking systems in very specific scenarios instead of providing a moderate benefit more of the time

Artillery Strikes & Airstrikes
Enter the game with the promise of "making lights run off points." Turns out to be a 2 damage grenade you can teleport and some recycled graphics. All the upgrades make them impossible to hit with.
.
.
We got slightly more damage, I guess.

NARC
NARC is introduced too heavy, too hard to hit with, and too ammo dependent.
.
.
NARC loses ability to work with Artemis, the thing every missile boat has.

..... I'm just getting tired at this point. Methodical and careful, for sure!

[Victor Morson]

DragunSlayer, on 01 July 2013 - 09:03 PM, said:

No way. I'm really hoping that its a Community Warfare, planetary league, fighting over territory, where how many mechs you own and can afford to bring in a dropship matter.... and that is split off from a ladder league that also exists... All this... "weapon tweaking" is really small potatoes compared to that kind of long view.

Join us for exciting community warfare! We will battle over planets with PPCs. PPCs, and Gauss. Make sure to reserve your PPC & Gauss Shadow Hawk today!

[DeathofSelf]

Let me save you some time and energy. The following answers can be applied to any of your questions.

Working as intended™

Soon™

[MoonUnitBeta]

Victor Morson, on 01 July 2013 - 09:09 PM, said:

..... I'm just getting tired at this point. Methodical and careful, for sure!

Thanks for summing up the weapon balance patch notes.

How about you do the World of Warcraft balancing patch notes as well.
You haven't proved a point here.

[InRev]

Roland, on 01 July 2013 - 09:03 PM, said:

I hear big things are coming tomorrow.
BIG MOTHER ******* THINGS
.

A double-sized cockpit statue?

MoonUnitBeta, on 01 July 2013 - 09:16 PM, said:

Thanks for summing up the weapon balance patch notes.

How about you do the World of Warcraft balancing patch notes as well.
You haven't proved a point here.

I think the point was that a headless chicken is more slow, deliberate and careful than PGI, as made evident by the wild swings-and-misses that pass for their balance history.

Speaking of a swing-and-a-miss, is there a World of Warcraft version of "Godwin's Law"?

[Victor Morson]

DeathofSelf, on 01 July 2013 - 09:14 PM, said:

Let me save you some time and energy. The following answers can be applied to any of your questions.

Working as intended™

Soon™

Nah bud, problems yours.

[DeathofSelf]

Victor Morson, on 01 July 2013 - 09:25 PM, said:

Nah bud, problems yours.

Oh, crap, I forgot about the island I'm on. You're right, my bad, good sir.

[hammerreborn]

Victor Morson, on 01 July 2013 - 08:54 PM, said:

I am resurrecting my first petition, found here, as also brought up here.

Long story short, the polls consistently reflect that the majority of players - both hardcore and casual - feel PGI has lost their way with weapon balance, and worse yet, fails to understand their own game and how it plays out in practical environments.

Or is this, what I can vouch typical matches look, really what PGI pictures as "The best state the game has ever been in?"

I think it is. While ya, the PPC meta is annoying and has been going on far too long, for the most part weapons hit what you fire at now, something that was unreliable even 2-3 months ago. Ravens are no longer the gods of the light class (or really any class), there is at least some variety in weapons compared to before...

LRMs (aside from LRMmaggedons) are finally at a point where I'm actually worried about them in my Jenner. Previously I could just run through them/run pependicular and watch them all fall behind me. Now, I get hit...

Edited by hammerreborn, 01 July 2013 - 09:31 PM.

[Victor Morson]

hammerreborn, on 01 July 2013 - 09:29 PM, said:

for the most part weapons hit what you fire at now

HSR honestly sucks if you had a good ping. It purely benefits the low ping players. The biggest reason I hate the way HSR works is that you will take damage to locations that aren't facing your enemy half the time, if the other guy is lagging in particular.

Good for some, bad for others. It made my brawling accuracy go up, my sniper accuracy go down. I get more dud hits now than before HSR and I'm not even remotely exaggerating. Sure I had to lag lead before, but I'd rather deal with lag leading than false registration. (Visual 'mech hits, no damage indicator)

hammerreborn, on 01 July 2013 - 09:29 PM, said:

, something that was unreliable even 2-3 months ago. Ravens are no longer the gods of the light class (or really any class), there is at least some variety in weapons compared to before...

Oh good, we killed Ravens. They were destroying the game.

hammerreborn, on 01 July 2013 - 09:29 PM, said:

LRMs (aside from LRMmaggedons) are finally at a point where I'm actually worried about them in my Jenner.

While I'll admit they're better in some ways, I'd rather they had a more potent effect than making a Jenner pilot slightly paranoid.

hammerreborn, on 01 July 2013 - 09:29 PM, said:

Previously I could just run through them/run pependicular and watch them all fall behind me. Now, I get hit...

It depends if they are using TAG. But if you slap an AMS on (which you should have anyway, being a light and dealing with Streaks) you'll probably still get away with 90% of the salvo missing.

[Gaden Phoenix]

hammerreborn, on 01 July 2013 - 09:29 PM, said:

I think it is. While ya, the PPC meta is annoying and has been going on far too long, for the most part weapons hit what you fire at now, something that was unreliable even 2-3 months ago. Ravens are no longer the gods of the light class (or really any class), there is at least some variety in weapons compared to before... LRMs (aside from LRMmaggedons) are finally at a point where I'm actually worried about them in my Jenner. Previously I could just run through them/run pependicular and watch them all fall behind me. Now, I get hit...

No I disagree. I cannot hit a light even if I shot him/her in the face. Lights "trans-phasic net shielding" is back and kicking. Worst yet it is now even harder for me to gauge how much I need to lead the lignt target for. Medium fast mechs also "suffer" from such "shielding" too. Even if at a lesser extend.

Regards.

[Accursed Richards]

MoonUnitBeta, on 01 July 2013 - 09:16 PM, said:

Thanks for summing up the weapon balance patch notes.

How about you do the World of Warcraft balancing patch notes as well.
You haven't proved a point here.

No, it's been proved. Weapons lurch up and down in effectiveness, but nearly a year in, shouldn't more of them have settled in a balanced state? Or at least, shouldn't the gaps between best and worst be a lot less yawning than it is? I'm hard-pressed to call balance any better than it was at the start of beta, because every step forward (lagshields, doom LRMs) seems to be accompanied by a step back (SRM's, PPC's).

Edited by Accursed Richards, 02 July 2013 - 04:15 AM.

[Victor Morson]

Namais, on 02 July 2013 - 03:50 AM, said:

Just lol. "Happy to listen to your concerns but basically I think your concerns are imaginary bs #yolo"

Am I the only one who thinks when PGI gets back to the office with the forums in their current state of anger, instead of responding and opening dialogue, they'll order some... Community Management?


ABOVE: A recreation of the only likely response we're ever going to get at this point.

Edited by Victor Morson, 02 July 2013 - 04:22 AM.

[El Bandito]

PGI's community management is awful. They can take care of so much unfounded rumors, disappointment, and anger if only they are willing to talk about what they are doing!

Not only that, they should makes polls about the current gameplay, mechs, weapons, equipments and sales for better profit in the long run.

Edited by El Bandito, 02 July 2013 - 04:26 AM.

[nitra]

they kinda let us know where they are at in the last ask the devs ...
< 30 days for 3pv

they have a post in the works regarding the state of community warfare

and they have been working working working to get the game ready for launch becase that deadline is approaching fast .

its all right here.
Ask da devs 41 ANSWRED