19 replies to this topic

[Monky]

Looking at the likelihood of the Victor 9A being added to the game, I noticed the mech has quite a lot of practical builds within the current meta. Here are just a few along with an analysis of each;

Loadout 1; Master Blaster
2x PPC or ERPPC, 2x Gauss
5 tons Gauss ammo (25 shots per rifle)
Endo Steel
Double Heatsinks (10 in engine)
XL 255 Engine

Pros; plenty of options for direct fire, heat capacity is low but cooling is sufficient for multiple back to back shots, with 50 point alpha, and ammo on the Gauss rifle should be sufficient. Capable of near max armor and can use the left arm as a 'shield arm' if taking fire, possibly costing a PPC but potentially saving the Gauss rifles and side torsos. If desired, you can put all the PPC's in the right torso and use the left arm as a true shield arm.

Cons; likely slow torso/leg rotation, no room for jumpjets, achilles heel in the left torso with a Gauss + XL engine. Unable to quickly pop in and out of cover to minimize the risk of XL, but very lethal. Will likely outdate the Jaeger XL/AC40 combo with higher alpha, more armor, more range, at the cost of speed. Could potentially rival the Stalker 4x PPC combo due to similar maneuverability/armor levels, but hitboxes can also be an issue and shield arms are tough to use with low torso rotation - a gamble at best. Not being able to use the arms due to lacking lower arm actuator in the right arm also means flankers will be able to take better advantage of getting behind you.

Overall; An easy point and shoot high damage sniper with sustain. You can practically one shot mediums, and definitely two shot them, some heavies and assaults will be a threat to you but you can roll them with the element of surprise, but that will be hard to pull off being somewhat slow. Still, anything can happen... My guess is this will be the primary variant you see across most skill levels due to the high probability of kills or at least high damage before going down.

Loadout 2; Dreadnaught
1x ERPPC, 2x Gauss
6 tons Gauss ammo or 5 tons Gauss ammo + 1 or 2 CASE/extra armor
Endo Steel
Double Heatsinks (10 in engine)
Standard 250 Engine

Pros; Geared toward survivability, particularly if CASE is included - as Gauss rifles tend to detonate on section destruction (ensuring if your PPC torso is cut, the Gauss in the arm will likely detonate, traveling inwards to your CT, and your Gauss torso will certainly do so). It's not appreciably slower than the XL 255 version in loadout 1, has almost indefinitely sustainable fire (seriously, an ERPPC would take a while to overheat it - you can fire for about a minute and a half at full bore, which means the standard PPC has no advantage on this build). Has a built in shield arm unless you really have to have that ER PPC in the arm. 40 point (practically indefinite) alpha with sufficient ammo for the Gauss rifles rounds it out.

Cons; Still as slow as the Loadout 1, but honestly probably better suited to mid skill level play where being CT cored isn't as much of a risk but the pilot will be able to dish out enough damage. Unable to jump, slow to maneuver, and unable to really get the most out of the heat meter means it has to be able to knock the enemy out in 40 point shots, which may not be enough if it gets CT cored quickly due to hitboxes.

Overall; This will certainly replace the AC20 cat, being just as powerful and much tougher and longer ranged without sacrificing speed. AC20 Jaegers might convert to this loadout as well if they don't like the vulnerability of the XL in loadout 1. Depending on hitboxes, it can compete with the 4x PPC stalker outright, except in 'hill humping' situations - but with mech movement undergoing a big change soon hill humping might be going by the wayside anyhow. This could be a competitive build, or it could just be a mid rate build, it's hard to say. I certainly wouldn't want to crest a ridge and find 8 of these looking at my soon to be annihilated self, meaning they could be very lethal if played in a defensive method, but good positioning will be a must and slow speed ensures failure if they get surprised.

Loadout 3; Air Jordan

1x ERPPC, 2x Gauss
5 tons Gauss ammo (25 shots per rifle)
Endo Steel
Double Heatsinks (10 in engine)
XL 300 Engine
2 Jumpjets

Pros; Jumpjets allow you to jump snipe, if you've got the constitution for it, at the very least they will greatly aid in positioning with the mech movement overhaul that's coming, making you far more flexible. Higher speeds than the other loadouts will grant you loads of pop out shots and better reaction time against flankers, plus shield arms will be most practical with this strategy. Alternatively, ditch the jumpjets and go right up to XL320 and just be a roll-out sniper/quick brawler. Well, quick for an assault anyways. All of this combined with the sustainable fire of Loadout 2 means a flexible all-rounder.

Cons; Still has the Gauss in torso with XL achilles heel, but can mitigate this a lot better due to engine size. Shield arms can only do so much and the speed really isn't leaps and bounds ahead of either loadout 1 or 2, while not making huge gains in survivability and doesn't really stand out in firepower from other options.

Overall; Probably the best balanced of the options and certainly friendly to mid to low skill brackets due to not feeling like you're in a giant lead suit. May see competetive use due to high sustain and good alpha, combined with good speed for an assault while still being jump capable - largely up in the air (no pun intended) due to the mech movement rework and just how mandatory jumpjets become to stay mobile. Still, this will likely be a solid choice for loadout unless the hitboxes are horrible for XL engines.

Loadout 4; Crushinator

4x Medium Laser 2x AC20
5 tons AC20 ammo (17 shots per AC with 1 leftover) + half ton of leg armor
Endo Steel
Double Heatsinks (10 in engine)
Standard 265 Engine
2 Jumpjets

Pros; 60 point alpha (disregarding partial hits with medium lasers) while moving at a decent clip (59kph with mastery) and capable of jump brawling. Durable due to no XL engine, not 100% ammo dependant, while able to safely carry 5 tons of AC20 ammo. Capable of steamrolling assaults in 3 Alphas if it can get close, which it should be able to do without shutting down, without having any real achilles heels. The lasers do offer a decent amount of firepower against close up fast movers and jumpjets let you juke shots and hit from the sky so long as you are able to pull it off.

Cons; Not as fast as it could be with an XL and certainly not heat efficient if fired at full blast. Most likely will not be able to use the medium lasers in tandem with the AC20's often and can spread damage due to laser beam duration. Would have to be significantly reworked to allow a bigger range profile, and would be a sitting duck if caught out in the open as it is not terribly fast. Using the shield arm is less practical due to the medium lasers housed inside of it, but may still be situationally worthwhile.

Overall; I honestly don't see why I would use any other dual AC20 mech, this one pretty much has it all. A lance of these able to get close would surely wreck anything they touch, with their speed and limited range being their only potential weaknesses (once again, barring hitboxes being bad). Jumpjets allow you to get where you're going without worrying about terrain, and mean you can effectively disengage or engage provided you use terrain smartly. This will almost certainly be the go to 'boom' build for those who like to get up close.

Recap;
Victor 9A is going to be a top rate sniper/brawler/jumper murderwagon with lots of options with large caliber weapons. 40 point alpha to 60 point alpha at varying ranges in generaly sustainable, mobile, and survivable packages, this assault will have to be butchered in hitboxes in order to not be a 'Victor' on the battlefield in the current meta. Of course, future balance and mechanics changes can lead to big changes in how a mech is used/useful.

[Kiiyor]

Monky, on 01 July 2013 - 10:26 PM, said:

Loadout 4; Crushinator

4x Medium Laser 2x AC20
5 tons AC20 ammo (17 shots per AC with 1 leftover) + half ton of leg armor
Endo Steel
Double Heatsinks (10 in engine)
Standard 265 Engine
2 Jumpjets

Pros;

SWEET JESUS, STANDARD ENGINE.

I just clenched and peed a little in fear. Screw the 7PPC Battlemaster, this actually looks viable. Dear god.

[Dexion]

Where is the MG located on a Victor-9a? Side torso?

[One Medic Army]

Depending what the hardpoints are, I think I'll do something a little weird:
2x UAC/5 (arm) AC/10 torso
Endo, DHS, XL300-325, 1-3JJ, Medium lasers to taste.

For the less screwy version swap AC/10 for a third UAC/5.
Say hello to the fast, jumping, 80ton Ilya.

Edited by One Medic Army, 01 July 2013 - 10:58 PM.

[Monky]

Dexion, on 01 July 2013 - 10:56 PM, said:

Where is the MG located on a Victor-9a? Side torso?

Yep, at least one in right arm, at least one in left torso.

One Medic Army, on 01 July 2013 - 10:57 PM, said:

Depending what the hardpoints are, I think I'll do something a little weird:
2x UAC/5 (arm) AC/10 torso
Endo, DHS, XL300-325, 1-3JJ, Medium lasers to taste.

For the less screwy version swap AC/10 for a third UAC/5.
Say hello to the fast, jumping, 80ton Ilya.

Jumping Ilya is an interesting concept, if it does have 3 ballistic hardpoints. At the very least it could be a practical version of the 2x UAC5 2x PPC builds, sacrificing some alpha for a lot of damage over time if it's limited to just 2 ballistic.

[MischiefSC]

I'll be a beast, no question but I'm curious to see how it handles the Battlemaster. JJs are nice but if the Highlander taught me anything it's that nice don't cut it - they do however cut available weight. I've got a Highlander with a 68pt alpha (with SRMs) and it crushes, it does! That Battlemaster is going to be faster, more maneuverable and a big thump at a longer range.

Not that I won't buy it! Still, I don't see it disrupting the meta. The speed and turning loss in return for the dual AC20s is severe. With the lack of lateral movement on the arms that circling weakness may be severe. Gonna love to see it though.

[One Medic Army]

MischiefSC, on 01 July 2013 - 11:17 PM, said:

With the lack of lateral movement on the arms that circling weakness may be severe.

It'll probably be like the Highlander 733C, in that it has half the arm motion range, since one arm has an actuator (and weapons) and the other doesn't.

[Monky]

MischiefSC, on 01 July 2013 - 11:17 PM, said:

I'll be a beast, no question but I'm curious to see how it handles the Battlemaster. JJs are nice but if the Highlander taught me anything it's that nice don't cut it - they do however cut available weight. I've got a Highlander with a 68pt alpha (with SRMs) and it crushes, it does! That Battlemaster is going to be faster, more maneuverable and a big thump at a longer range.

Not that I won't buy it! Still, I don't see it disrupting the meta. The speed and turning loss in return for the dual AC20s is severe. With the lack of lateral movement on the arms that circling weakness may be severe. Gonna love to see it though.

The main thing about the battlemaster is you can go so many different ways - Gauss rifle and 7 LL's, 7 ppc's, any number of wicked mixes throwing in an LRM20 for giggles, it's got flex and those energy hardpoints are up high. an XL engine might actually be practical in it too since it has so many more options for ballistics. Hard to see it being any worse than the current Stalker at any rate.

[Kiiyor]

One Medic Army, on 01 July 2013 - 10:57 PM, said:

Depending what the hardpoints are, I think I'll do something a little weird:
2x UAC/5 (arm) AC/10 torso
Endo, DHS, XL300-325, 1-3JJ, Medium lasers to taste.

For the less screwy version swap AC/10 for a third UAC/5.
Say hello to the fast, jumping, 80ton Ilya.

Colour me intrigued. I do love me some Ultra dakka.

As soon as we get a chassis capable of mounting 4xUAC + change, I'll run it to the exclusion of all else, and will need to make it aquatic to be able to navigate the torrents of tears produced.

[meteorol]

Side torso hitboxes will probably decide how the victor is played. If the hitboxes are XL friendly (like the highlander hitboxes), the victor will turn into the new premium sniper mech (with 50pt alpha), which will probably result in 8-14 GR per team during FOTM.

He has some disadvantages though.
Weapons in the arms and below cockpit while being in the "huge" class when the new mech movement gets into the game. This means the already slow (when using small engines to achieve the 50pt alpha) mech will crawl hills up even slower, which will gimp him alot while trying to ridge hump. He won't be able pop in and out cover due to his low speed.
If the hitboxes are bad for XL engines, the side torso with the gauss will scream "kill me" as soon as the mech shows himself.

2 Gauss 1 er PPC will still be a very viable sniper if the XL engine hitboxes are bad

Edited by meteorol, 02 July 2013 - 02:49 AM.

[DarkDevilDancer]

I think you just sold me on the victor.

[TheJs]

Where did the developers say the 9A was being added to the game?

[One Medic Army]

TheJs, on 03 July 2013 - 12:19 PM, said:

Where did the developers say the 9A was being added to the game?

It's not.
Bumping this thread has reminded me of what is not to be.
Now I am sad.

[Bishop Steiner]

anyone notice something missing?

Yes. No VTR-9A. You can all unpucker your sphincters now.

[xCico]

That mech would be OP cmon 2xAC20 and 2x PPC, like 4-6ppc stalker isnt enough?? Im glad they didnt put that in game, because all you would see on the ground is Victor 9A with that build!

[Angel of Annihilation]

TheJs, on 03 July 2013 - 12:19 PM, said:

Where did the developers say the 9A was being added to the game?

Its not as far as I can tell. Some hacked the game files and the listed variants were the 9B, 9K and 9S. None have the ability to mount dual Gauss or AC/20. Two however remove the lower arm acuator which will allow for an AC/20 to be mounted in the arm at the expense of range of motion.

[Bishop Steiner]

Viktor Drake, on 03 July 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

Its not as far as I can tell. Some hacked the game files and the listed variants were the 9B, 9K and 9S. None have the ability to mount dual Gauss or AC/20. Two however remove the lower arm acuator which will allow for an AC/20 to be mounted in the arm at the expense of range of motion.

ummm... it ain't a hack. Check your PILOT LAB, then ASSAULT, then VICTOR, and apparently, voila! You too can be a Hacker.

Or you can just refer to the image in my post above where I did the work for ya.

[General Taskeen]

Sometimes they add a variant at the last moment.

Besides, when the King Crab or Annihilator comes along, will there be fears then? Either way, there are Assault Mechs with lots of big guns.

As far as, yes, I guess huge weapons that are front loaded can be considered OP, but that issue lies with PGI trying to adhere to strict damage values. Its only going to cause more problems as time goes on. No one would care if a Victor could hold double B's if that wasn't the case, where in some distance future MWO has a semblance of great balance.

And in-case anyone is wondering,

The Victor-9A shaves off 3 tons of armor in its stock format, but has the following: AC/20 (RA), 2xML (LA), 2xFlamer (RT), 1xSRM4; 1xMG (LT) (2 BH, 4 EH, 1 MH)

The Victor-9A1 has the following: AC/20 (RA), 2xML (LA), 1xSRM4 (LT), 1xMG (RL), 1xMG (LL) (3 BH, 2 EH, 1 MH)

Edited by General Taskeen, 03 July 2013 - 06:23 PM.

[tayhimself]

Bishop Steiner, on 03 July 2013 - 12:47 PM, said:

anyone notice something missing?

Yes. No VTR-9A. You can all unpucker your sphincters now.

I also notice that you sold off your HGNs and AS7-Ds and only kept one? Why

[Bishop Steiner]

tayhimself, on 03 July 2013 - 07:39 PM, said:

I also notice that you sold off your HGNs and AS7-Ds and only kept one? Why

cuz they were boring as heck to play, IMO. Too slow and clumsy. Also, I have never owned more than one Atlas. My Founder's is it.

I need a mech that moves 65+ kph and has decent agility. It's why I usually drive Cents or Jagermechs.