22 replies to this topic

[Atma Erebus]

Not news, since no effort was made to fix it, but it's still a BIG PROBLEM.

[Mizore]

First game after the patch and there were about 40 PPCs arround... I'm done with that ****.

Get going and fix this mess, PGI!!!

P.S.: I don't know how many people have already stopped playing MWO because of the messed up balance, but from what I heard, this is the main reason people complained about!

Edited by Mizore, 02 July 2013 - 11:19 AM.

[UPnADAM]

Ppl were probably trying the new heat mechanic?

[DeathlyEyes]

Fix what? "ANH-1E - This field-expedient refit was used by the Dragoons after the Battle of Misery. All of the autocannons were removed and replaced with four PPCs and two additional Medium Lasers. The ANH-1E also carried forty-one heat sinks, enough to fire the main weapons continually. BV (2.0) = 1,625^[4]" Straight from sarna, it is a cannon variant. I put 41 heatsinks on my atlas RS and it could not fire just 4ppcs repeatedly. Obviously ppc's are even weaker than they are in battletech. Stop whining and adapt. Players boating ppcs have to nail all their shots or they are screwed. Even then with no damage bug sometimes they can hit all their shots and still loose.

[soarra]

h4t3r4d3, on 02 July 2013 - 10:54 AM, said:

Fix what? "ANH-1E - This field-expedient refit was used by the Dragoons after the Battle of Misery. All of the autocannons were removed and replaced with four PPCs and two additional Medium Lasers. The ANH-1E also carried forty-one heat sinks, enough to fire the main weapons continually. BV (2.0) = 1,625^[4]" Straight from sarna, it is a cannon variant. I put 41 heatsinks on my atlas RS and it could not fire just 4ppcs repeatedly. Obviously ppc's are even weaker than they are in battletech. Stop whining and adapt. Players boating ppcs have to nail all their shots or they are screwed. Even then with no damage bug sometimes they can hit all their shots and still loose.

lol nail al their shots, not sure if you play this game or not.
You point 4 or 6 ppcs in 1 spot and it blows up, move to next one and repeat.. The pinpoint accuracy is the problem.
They need to put the heat back to what they were, and fix convergence

[Featherwood]

Mizore, on 02 July 2013 - 10:49 AM, said:

I'm done with that ****.

Get going and fix this mess, PGI!!!

Same here. PGI, whip your designers responsible for balance and mechanics, they proved to be utterly useless, find new ones if that won't help. I'm out until you fix current huge problem with 100% convergence. BTW, that heat trick doesn't work well, most ER PPC+Gauss cheez builds are heat effective and spit on it, laughing mad.

[Black Templar]

UPnADAM, on 02 July 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

Ppl were probably trying the new heat mechanic?

yep think so. the new heat mechanic is not even fully addressed to alpha builds. once the pulse lasers and the srms get balanced, it will be time evaluate boating once more and adjusted within reason. any rushed decision is a bad decision.

Edited by Black Templar, 02 July 2013 - 10:59 AM.

[DeathlyEyes]

Even with convergence it still is somewhat more difficult to aim ppcs than lasers. If i miss one shot with a ppc boat I am pretty much all but screwed. I think it is fine the way it is/has been. the Atlas has a pretty wide damage area a long with the stalker. I have shot both side torsos off a hunchback in one shot but barely damaged its center torso (it was already pretty critical on either side torso). PGI needs to stop catering to everyone complaining because their mech isn't the best even though it is easier to use (they don't need to lead targets).

[Mizore]

h4t3r4d3, on 02 July 2013 - 10:54 AM, said:

Fix what? "ANH-1E - This field-expedient refit was used by the Dragoons after the Battle of Misery. All of the autocannons were removed and replaced with four PPCs and two additional Medium Lasers. The ANH-1E also carried forty-one heat sinks, enough to fire the main weapons continually. BV (2.0) = 1,625^[4]" Straight from sarna, it is a cannon variant. I put 41 heatsinks on my atlas RS and it could not fire just 4ppcs repeatedly. Obviously ppc's are even weaker than they are in battletech. Stop whining and adapt. Players boating ppcs have to nail all their shots or they are screwed. Even then with no damage bug sometimes they can hit all their shots and still loose.

Yeah I know... and cannon also says that an average lance has to consist of 3-4 assault mechs all armed with PPCs and Gauss *sigh*

Edited by Mizore, 02 July 2013 - 11:03 AM.

[Cola]

Cannon this cannon that, just be thankful that armor values were doubled or anything that could fit 4 PPCs could 1 shot an Atlas.

[DeathlyEyes]

arden, on 02 July 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

Cannon this cannon that, just be thankful that armor values were doubled or anything that could fit 4 PPCs could 1 shot an Atlas.

Exatly PPCs were nerfed enough

[PhoenixFire55]

Its not only about PPCs. Dual AC-20 mechs still eat anything with PPCs up close. Problem is unless you have a really good team that supports you instead of standing and trading fire against PPC boats using MLs at 800m you won't get close to the enemy without getting shredded. So knowing that you can't trust your team to get close to PPC boats you start to bring as many PPCs as you can yourself. Counter cheese with more cheese ... only way it works, shame it only adds to the problem tho.

[Cest7]

They know

http://mwomercs.com/...e-july-2nd2013/

Paul says be patient.

[Kamelkaze]

Nerf Raven 3L and Dual AC20 boats and its balanced for me. 3 ER PPC and 5 ER LL are too hot.

[spectralthundr]

PhoenixFire55, on 02 July 2013 - 12:08 PM, said:

Its not only about PPCs. Dual AC-20 mechs still eat anything with PPCs up close. Problem is unless you have a really good team that supports you instead of standing and trading fire against PPC boats using MLs at 800m you won't get close to the enemy without getting shredded. So knowing that you can't trust your team to get close to PPC boats you start to bring as many PPCs as you can yourself. Counter cheese with more cheese ... only way it works, shame it only adds to the problem tho.

Or you know, you could use terrain and cover to avoid getting alpha'ed by 4+ PPC's. It's pretty funny that guys I drop with can shred PPC lances by using cover and flanking and in general using tactics, and the rest of the community would rather just QQ on the forums about it ad nauseum

[Jyi]

h4t3r4d3, on 02 July 2013 - 10:54 AM, said:

Fix what? "ANH-1E - This field-expedient refit was used by the Dragoons after the Battle of Misery. All of the autocannons were removed and replaced with four PPCs and two additional Medium Lasers. The ANH-1E also carried forty-one heat sinks, enough to fire the main weapons continually. BV (2.0) = 1,625^[4]"  Straight from sarna, it is a cannon variant.  I put 41 heatsinks on my atlas RS and it could not fire just 4ppcs repeatedly.  Obviously ppc's are even weaker than they are in battletech.  Stop whining and adapt.  Players boating ppcs have to nail all their shots or they are screwed.  Even then with no damage bug sometimes they can hit all their shots and still loose.

The dumbest thing you can do is to compare canon to in-game implementation. Especially when you are only quoting chosen lines. Nearly none of the game mechanics work as they do in canon, otherwise we'd be looking at people blowing up from 1-2 salvoes of missiles, or at least losing some parts. Now you barely go orange from LRM40 in face in a heavy mech, which is pretty much on border of good and too good, in my opinion.

PPC-boats DO NOT have to nail their shots at all. They can easily keep shooting and shooting for long periods of time by chainfiring 2 out of 4 PPC's, looking where the projectiles go and adjusting from there. And when a team has 4+ PPC-boats, they can easily cover most good routes in most maps, forcing any brawler-builds to sit in cover. Not to mention the above-average new LRM's that enhance this effect. And then there's the ridicilously overpowered Seismic Sensor that lights any closing brawler up like a christmas tree on the PPC-boat's radar.

Also, PPC's are NOT weaker than in battletech, they are far superior in almost every way. Here's PPC in sarna: http://www.sarna.net...rojector_Cannon Oh would you look at that, 10 heat and 10 damage, when in game it's only 8 heat for 10 damage. Fricking LPL has 8.5 heat and it does only 0.6 more damage, and you need to keep the aim straight for the whole duration - and it has a range of only 600 meters at max. And it weigh's the same! That's ridicilous, in BT LPL has same heat as PPC!

The only reason you feel PPC's are weaker is because the armor was doubled in-game compared to BT.

Lets look at every single ballistics weapon.. oh, they are all identical to BT in damage and heat, with the exception of AC20, which has 6 heat instead of 7. So which weapon has gotten the best out of the changes? Oh, PPC. Not to mention ERPPC, which is supposed to have 15 heat, but only has 11.

This has lead to this situation in which PPC's are now ridicilously overpowered. They used to suck, but that was because of lag- and convergency issues. So the developers reduced their heat and recycle times (wtf-decision) and gave them anti-ECM -capabilities to make them more appealing. Now that the lag- and convergency issues have been somewhat fixed (for some at least, but of course not for us living in Europe...), both PPC's are being boated like crap.

Edited by Jyi, 02 July 2013 - 12:30 PM.

[DeathlyEyes]

Jyi, on 02 July 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

The dumbest thing you can do is to compare canon to in-game implementation. Especially when you are only quoting chosen lines. Nearly none of the game mechanics work as they do in canon, otherwise we'd be looking at people blowing up from 1-2 salvoes of missiles, or at least losing some parts. Now you barely go orange from LRM40 in face in a heavy mech, which is pretty much on border of good and too good, in my opinion.

PPC-boats DO NOT have to nail their shots at all. They can easily keep shooting and shooting for long periods of time by chainfiring 2 out of 4 PPC's, looking where the projectiles go and adjusting from there. And when a team has 4+ PPC-boats, they can easily cover most good routes in most maps, forcing any brawler-builds to sit in cover. Not to mention the above-average new LRM's that enhance this effect. And then there's the ridicilously overpowered Seismic Sensor that lights any closing brawler up like a christmas tree on the PPC-boat's radar.

Also, PPC's are NOT weaker than in battletech, they are far superior in almost every way. Here's PPC in sarna: http://www.sarna.net...rojector_Cannon Oh would you look at that, 10 heat and 10 damage, when in game it's only 8 heat for 10 damage. Fricking LPL has 8.5 heat and it does only 0.6 more damage, and you need to keep the aim straight for the whole duration - and it has a range of only 600 meters at max. And it weigh's the same! That's ridicilous, in BT LPL has same heat as PPC!

The only reason you feel PPC's are weaker is because the armor was doubled in-game compared to BT.

Lets look at every single ballistics weapon.. oh, they are all identical to BT in damage and heat, with the exception of AC20, which has 6 heat instead of 7. So which weapon has gotten the best out of the changes? Oh, PPC. Not to mention ERPPC, which is supposed to have 15 heat, but only has 11.

This has lead to this situation in which PPC's are now ridicilously overpowered. They used to suck, but that was because of lag- and convergency issues. So the developers reduced their heat and recycle times (wtf-decision) and gave them anti-ECM -capabilities to make them more appealing. Now that the lag- and convergency issues have been somewhat fixed (for some at least, but of course not for us living in Europe...), both PPC's are being boated like crap.

If the heat is not as bad as in cannon then why cant 41 single heatsinks handle the heat of 4 ppcs........ All I am trying to say is that ppcs are working as they should and don't need anymore nerfs. Just learn to deal with them. Battletech has always had PPCs at a higher level of weapon. They just are harder to aim than most other weapons and have more negative consequences than balistics because of the heat buildup. I haven't suggested that PPCs needed to be buffed. I am fine with not being able to alpha strike continously even if I do have 41 heatsinks. All I am saying is it could be a lot worse.

Edited by h4t3r4d3, 02 July 2013 - 12:39 PM.

[PhoenixFire55]

spectralthundr, on 02 July 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

Or you know, you could use terrain and cover to avoid getting alpha'ed by 4+ PPC's. It's pretty funny that guys I drop with can shred PPC lances by using cover and flanking and in general using tactics, and the rest of the community would rather just QQ on the forums about it ad nauseum

Sigh ...

I'm not QQ'ing. All I'm saying is that the problem isn't ONLY in PPCs but in a game style that most players use either due to haveing sniper weapons or just being cowards or whatever reason. Besides, you can use all cover in the world all you want but when you actually fight that PPC boat his other PPC buddies are gonna kill you in 1 shot unless you have your buddies right behind you. Its the problem that your buddies are usually too scared to go and fight PPC boats at the distance you have an advantage over them ...

[DeathlyEyes]

There is no substitute for team work. We can roll teams usually working together and on occassion we get rolled by lrm boats. It's not like any stratagey is fool proof. Every stratagey has it's weakness and usually groups playing together can only be countered by another group playing together.

[Jyi]

h4t3r4d3, on 02 July 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

If the heat is not as bad as in cannon then why cant 41 single heatsinks handle the heat of 4 ppcs........ All I am trying to say is that ppcs are working as they should and don't need anymore nerfs. Just learn to deal with them. Battletech has always had PPCs at a higher level of weapon. They just are harder to aim than most other weapons and have more negative consequences than balistics because of the heat buildup. I haven't suggested that PPCs needed to be buffed. I am fine with not being able to alpha strike continously even if I do have 41 heatsinks. All I am saying is it could be a lot worse.

Because the heatsinks in the game operate completely differently than the ones in BT. There's really nothing you can take from a design that is made for turn-based tabletop-game to a realtime 1st person simulation. I don't know how exactly the heatsinks work in BT, but I'm guessing 1 normal heatsink dissipates 1 heat per turn, and that's it. Double Heatsinks dissipate double the heat in BT - and that's where the big differences start, as in MWO DHS is only 1.4 times as effective as SHS (with the exception of engine heatsinks, which I think still dissipate double the heat.. unless it has been changed).

It's all very confusing, and in my opinion the developers should've just thrown the BT rules to carbage can when they started developing this game.

Also: no, PPC's do not have more negative consequences than ballistics. There's nothing more negative than losing a considerable amount of something that is very limited (ammo). And PPC's are, in my opinion, much easier to aim than most weapons in the game. Lasers are the only ones that are somewhat easier, but even then you need to follow the part of the mech you want to damage, and to be effective at that takes way more skill than point-and-click-PPC.

Edited by Jyi, 02 July 2013 - 01:08 PM.