52 replies to this topic

[Relic1701]

warner2, on 02 July 2013 - 01:09 PM, said:

It sounds like if you can't walk up a hill, and it's over a certain distance, you can't jump up it. I was not expecting that but now it seems obvious. Looking forward to trying it out.

2 Pages in and someone figures it out!

[keith]

daemur, on 02 July 2013 - 12:57 PM, said:

If you cannot climb it at all, you are on a 45 degree angle. In the current implementation this is an angle so steep that your mech will not be able to climb it. I understand it may make things difficult but I think it may also force an interesting change in gameplay which may be pretty positive. Try the same hill from another side or angle or possibly try it in a lighter mech.

Cheers,
daemur

what u are telling us to do leads us to some impossible hills to jump that u could climb before. the middle ridge of alpine even in a light u can not jump up high enough. yet u are telling us to basically think outside the box or thats how it is intended to work. yet ever other MW title u could jump up big hills. y is MWO being different? that ridge could lead to some interesting tactics yes u are telling us to leave it out now. bad move by PGi/IGP

[Vermaxx]

Jump jets provide a mech with X hex-movement (number of jets) or jets x 30 meters forward, OR one height difference per jet. That is what jets do. In other words, EVERY mech with 4 jets should be able to move 120 meters forward or up 4 height rating. I can't find the measurement for how high a 'height rating' is, but let's say it's at least 10 meters each, so a mech with 4 jets should be able to climb 40 meter hills with no issue. ON THE OTHER HAND, mechs weren't supposed to be able to move from one location to another only if the difference in height was two or less (I think). So not being able to walk up anything higher than 45 degrees makes sense. UNFORTUNATELY this changes comes after months of play on maps that have developed paths and strategies and fire locations that are no longer possible. MW3 really had the most amazing jump jets, which were much closer to what tabletop let you do.

Machine guns cause two damage to a mech, in one hit location, with one 'fire action.' They have no integral crit bonus, they are not crit seekers by anything other than massed use, they are not intended to exploit previously damaged mechs.

These are BT rules, but like a lot of things in MWO, PGI decided to change them. There isn't any point in arguing with a skull-head though, since this is PGI's world and we only play in it.

[Garrath]

All in all it's pretty good.

There definitely is a problem with being stopped by ridiculously small slopes, I've seen it a few times so far. Ankle high obstacles stopping you from a dead run.

Other than that, I'm assuming the intention is to not let jump jets 'slide' you up a slope. I suppose realistically, if you tried to jump up to a surface, didn't quite make the approach angle right and clipped your foot on the top, you wouldn't halt where you were or slide down, you'd do one amazing flip and faceplant, so I guess they're being somewhat kind to us.

I think it's a good change though, adds more tactical piloting to the game. JJ will give some real advantages that walkers won't have, even if it requires more skill to use.

[XSive Death]

People have had their sugar and lard fueled diet stripped back to a healthy alternative, it might not taste good, but it's essential for a healthy lifestyle.

Suck it up, learn some role warfare.

[ManDaisy]

XSive Death, on 02 July 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

People have had their sugar and lard fueled diet stripped back to a healthy alternative, it might not taste good, but it's essential for a healthy lifestyle.

Suck it up, learn some role warfare.

How so? By loading up an mech without jump jets and doing nothing but ppcs and missiles? Oh wait, I get it, your telling people to be poptarts and not scouts where they dont have to worry about snagging and comming to a sudden stop.

[Lokust Davion]

Garrath, on 02 July 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

All in all it's pretty good.

There definitely is a problem with being stopped by ridiculously small slopes, I've seen it a few times so far. Ankle high obstacles stopping you from a dead run.

Other than that, I'm assuming the intention is to not let jump jets 'slide' you up a slope. I suppose realistically, if you tried to jump up to a surface, didn't quite make the approach angle right and clipped your foot on the top, you wouldn't halt where you were or slide down, you'd do one amazing flip and faceplant, so I guess they're being somewhat kind to us.

I think it's a good change though, adds more tactical piloting to the game. JJ will give some real advantages that walkers won't have, even if it requires more skill to use.

Would be awesome if mechs can actually flip and faceplant.

[keith]

daemur, on 02 July 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

I think some of the lights may be able to make it up, reinforcing their roles as scouts whereas the mediums/heavies may be able to cross some of the smaller hills (even if slowly) allowing them to act as skirmishers while the assaults are forced to choose a wise route and a solid position from which to fight allowing the major battles to center around them (unless LRMing).

Ultimately I think the change is a step in the right direction but may need some time to get used to.

Hopefully people will use more of the maps, not just the crowsnests at the tops of mountains and find new paths and bottlenecks for combat.

daemur

i too believe its a step in the right direction. bottlenecks in a FPS title are not always the best option. personal i tend to avoid them on most maps. will have to see how it plays out, do hope it gets modded a bit from the first showing of it.

[Rippthrough]

Jump jet in middle of firefight. Accidentally land on a small hill/bump/rock whilst on an incline. Your speed drops to nothing, now even if the entire area around you is shallow enough to walk, and you could have walked over the rock using momentum previously, you will be stuck, because your speed drops to zero when you land on it. If you hit your jets you just go straight up and down on it again. You have to turn around, go back down the small bump/rock a few meters, then turn around accelerate and jump again.

Actually, you don't, because the moment you went from 100kph to zero, you died. And if you didn't, this godforsaken collision clipping/stuttering/teleporting which has come back with a vengence lately will bounce your arse around for a few seconds whilst you appear still to be stood on the rock to the 4 guys now hitting the alpha strike button.

I like the new movement rules, apart from the odd clipping issue which leads to a minute or so of incredibly frustrating teleporting whilst your legs explode, but the JJ's definately could do with adding a touch of forward momentum just to prevent things like that from happening.

Edited by Rippthrough, 02 July 2013 - 03:59 PM.

[LastPaladin]

XenonCx, on 02 July 2013 - 12:07 PM, said:

Hmm, sounds to me like you just need to adapt and hit your thrusters sooner than previously required. If you hit the edge of a cliff, you didn't perform the maneuver properly.

Ok, please explain to me how to propertly perform this maneuver then: you're on canyon map, on a path up a slope, using jumpjets to aid in ascending the slope, and you get stuck on the lip at the top of the path. You can't fully jump up the slope without using the path (unless you're in a light with a lot of jjs), so don't say to just start your jump earlier. Even in a light, doing a full jump up to the top of some of those platforms would be pretty difficult, due to the low angle of jumps and the lack of room in the canyon to get a running start when you are facing perpendicular to the path.

[tredmeister]

ManDaisy, on 02 July 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

Actually I am. If there was a real engineer dumb enough to only make a war platform able to jump up but with no way to control or regain speed and direction in the event of a collision he'd cause a lot of people to die.

Vectored thrust "was" available to war machines over 1055 years before the current timeline?

[Nebelfeuer]

It´s kind of true. with the current movement system JJ need manouvering jets in order to fullfill their job.

A workaround might be to enchance the vertical climbing speed so we do not need as much space for our running momentum jump and run less risk of touching the obstacle we planned to jump over.

Generally the current mechnic does not really make sense since we need to use groundmovement to define JJ movement but loose all momentum upon landing(which would indicate manouvering jets - that should be useable in midflight aswell).

You should make a decision here:
either keep the fullstop upon landing but give us manouvering jets,
or keep the momentum system we have but remove the fullstop upon landing.

Both variants would help fix the problem described here and be more realistic.

[Dracol]

Question for those people who are landing just short of the top, are you still only packing one or two jump jets?

[Mattskiiau]

Oh man.. The QQ is funny!

"Y CAN I NOT USE MY 1 JJ TO DA TOP OV DA HILL SO I CAN HAZ PPC SNIPE DA MENZ?"

Adapt.

I love this change, makes the game feel better, instead of 100 ton snipers climbing up a 50 degree fricken slope to go snipe. Thank you PGI. Ignore the haters.

[Corvus Antaka]

jumpjets need more thrutst, faster, higher, more power & some ability to direct them ie a 20%/ x value push in the direction you are facing. jumpjets need love.

[Nixak]

If you cannot get up a hill using jumpjets, than you might need to drop all your ppcs to add a few more jumpjets. 1 or 2 jumpjets will not cut it anymore.

[MavRCK]

It's just bad movement... always been like this...

except we get stuck on anything...

Welcome to Stumblewarrior Online!

[Immitem]

You can adapt to a bad mechanic or you could, you know, try and fix it! There is no reason JJs should be this gimped. If I was left to designing these mechs I could suffer the cockpit shake without complaint (I actually love it but prefer it lessen with each incremental drop in mech weight class) but being unable to accomplish the task it was developed for in the first place is madness!

Vector thrusting at the very least needs to be an addition. JJs for my brawling highlander are nearly useless as every single ridge I would normally pop over to flank behind a group of enemies are too tall to do it in one bound. I can suffer doing it in two, one to get halfway up then stop'n digin, another to finally make it over. At the same time this game seems to forget momentum, 90 tonnes of srms and lasers are not going to stop just because its feet brushed some ground on its way up (which as I have tested it does at the moment).

Someone before me somehow misconstrued this whole topic to be about some hypothetical nerf to poptarts that is not actually present in this current patch or even remotely implied in the OP. How in the hell did you come to that conclusion?

P.S. It seems adapt is the go to word to dismiss or shoot down a problem that does not affect you or breaks something you hate.

Edited by Immitem, 02 July 2013 - 07:02 PM.

[Wired]

I noticed a lot of quickdraw builds which dropped to only 1 or 2 jumpjets before this patch. I havent had a chance to play and see these behaviors myself, but I am curious about something.

Those of you having problems jumping, what is the weight class of your mech and how many jumpjets do you use?

example,
Heavy mech 2/7 jumpjets.

[Glutwolke]

Again, I think the devs need really to stuff up their test department. The Dead JJ Trap is so easy to detect ingame, and it's so annoying that I cant believe they made it "by design". JJ are still under development, if i remember correctly, and this is the major issue for vector JJ come into play. U know: fire jj, come into fly, turn, fire jj again. U shouldnt just hover more ... Same for fireing JJ while standing. PRess a direction key to get a (slow) movement in the direction with your JJ. Thats just like the space shuttle does it .

Im only curious why we have such elemental gameplay changes right before going out of beta (wasnt it "late summer", or did I get the wrong year )?