50 replies to this topic

[Helsbane]

the new slope mechanic does play out a lot like "blink" did for mages in WoW. You end up stopping at any terrain feature that has an 'edge' to it, regardless of item height.

It's not a problem, it's a 'feature'....

[Mr Everything]

Guys I think you are Forgetting that a Mech is NOT a Human Being,, hell its Not even a Race car... its also not Light as a Feather.

Mechs are always TRYing to STOP they do not WANT to move anywhere, The Computers in the Mech Have about a BILLION computations just to pick one foot up and Place it back down with out falling over,,, And you want this mech to BE MORE REALISTIC.. I laugh at that.

Sure Jump Jets are just Thrusters who lift the mech up and let them fall. and your forward Momentum from movement in conjunction with JJ allows for an Arc In Air Movement Pattern.
Now you wonder why the momentum does not allow for your mech to Land on One Foot and keep running at full Throttle, well guess what your mech is Not running in air and it's legs are actually Locked to prevent the Superman belly Flop. and Hell a 30 Ton Brick falling from 50' i can only imagine the Suspension System needed to Keep your Chicken legs from just snapping like a twig.
So Both legs are set to accept the full load of Weight you land ,,, legs buckle,, and then you Throttle up and start running again....

Sounds Very reasonable to me.......

[Kunae]

Mr Everything, on 03 July 2013 - 04:43 PM, said:

Guys I think you are Forgetting that a Mech is NOT a Human Being,, hell its Not even a Race car... its also not Light as a Feather.

Mechs are always TRYing to STOP they do not WANT to move anywhere, The Computers in the Mech Have about a BILLION computations just to pick one foot up and Place it back down with out falling over,,, And you want this mech to BE MORE REALISTIC.. I laugh at that.

Sure Jump Jets are just Thrusters who lift the mech up and let them fall. and your forward Momentum from movement in conjunction with JJ allows for an Arc In Air Movement Pattern.
Now you wonder why the momentum does not allow for your mech to Land on One Foot and keep running at full Throttle, well guess what your mech is Not running in air and it's legs are actually Locked to prevent the Superman belly Flop. and Hell a 30 Ton Brick falling from 50' i can only imagine the Suspension System needed to Keep your Chicken legs from just snapping like a twig.
So Both legs are set to accept the full load of Weight you land ,,, legs buckle,, and then you Throttle up and start running again....

Sounds Very reasonable to me.......

You're just making stuff up to rationalize your own point of view.

Here, grok a little inertia.

[xenoglyph]

bump because this does need some fine tuning.

While we're at it, let's add acceleration to walking downhill, hmm?

[Demuder]

Ransack, on 03 July 2013 - 10:03 AM, said:

OK, it is called a "Triple Jump" for a reason. Extra long steps? You must not know much track and field. From a run, you JUMP forward off of one foot. Then you JUMP forward off of the other and you land in the pit. That guy's crumple as you call it is from extending his legs for maximum distance on the landing. Had he chosen to land upright, I assure you that he wound NOT land at a dead standstill.

I assure you I know all too well what a triple jump is. The two steps before the jump (the one before the line and the one after) have also a special terminology which I do not know in english, and I don't think greek would benefit you anyway. Only the last phase is characterized as a jump.

Of course he wouldn't land in a stand still. My point is, put some heavy ordnance on that guy, and imagine him or anyone or yourself doing a jump. Of course they wouldn't be able to jump like that, the jump would be much shorter, and you would have two alternatives: either try to plant yourself to the ground or fall on your face if you try to keep moving after landing. The best result you can hope for in the latter is roll like a paratrooper, which would be rather debilitating for the mech.

I can find you a million videos from gymnastics where athletes take jumps and simply plant themselves to the ground, what would that prove ? Which btw disproves any half-baked theories about forward momentum, inertia etc. We are not talking about Newtonian celestial point-bodies, but something else.

What's more, I don't think that comparing a mech to a track athlete has any merit other than demonstrating what a mech can NOT do.

When you are trying to expend the downward momentum after a jump, the strain to the knees is much worse if you are trying to keep the forward momentum as well. It is much more safe to try and stop yourself. It is exactly the reason why when you are taught how to drop from a height (or a parachute) you are instructed to bend your knees and roll instead of trying to hit the ground running.

Edited by dimstog, 04 July 2013 - 02:59 AM.

[Fooooo]

No need to remove it, just tune it a bit.

Not knowing how exactly its implemented (coded) makes it harder to know what way is easiest.

At first I thought they just tapped into the slope stuff already built into cryengine. (how you can set things in the SDK to only apply or paint on/to certain slopes) As this would have been the simplest route.

Take the slope angles that the engine already knows about, and apply that to a mech movement system. The system can detect on the fly what angle the mech/vehicle/character is currently on and apply an effect because of it.

There are still lots of problems doing it this simply tho. Mainly that small 1m inclines above your set limit, will stop movement. However objects never would.

This is where you would have to adjust stuff. Adding something to it that detects how high the feature is compared to your mech, and adjusting the result, meaning 1m high 90degree terrain features no-longer stop an atlas dead etc. (if it were that extreme)

However, the problem I see people complaining about is rocks and objects are actually stopping you. Which if the way I explained above, was in effect, this would not be the case afaik. As objects dont have a "slope" that the engine knows about in a sense. They have a collision proxy that is modeled.


Why objects (rocks etc) are causing issues I don't know. I'm guessing its for some reason checking the collision proxy of the object and detecting a 90 degree angle on those tiny pebbles and so stopping the mech.

Maybe they can just exclude the new movement system from checking objects, as most rocks stop you dead already anyway....the ones large enough anway through the normal collision mechanics.

[oldradagast]

Fooooo, on 04 July 2013 - 05:12 AM, said:

No need to remove it, just tune it a bit.

Not knowing how exactly its implemented (coded) makes it harder to know what way is easiest.

At first I thought they just tapped into the slope stuff already built into cryengine. (how you can set things in the SDK to only apply or paint on/to certain slopes) As this would have been the simplest route.

Take the slope angles that the engine already knows about, and apply that to a mech movement system. The system can detect on the fly what angle the mech/vehicle/character is currently on and apply an effect because of it.

There are still lots of problems doing it this simply tho. Mainly that small 1m inclines above your set limit, will stop movement. However objects never would.

This is where you would have to adjust stuff. Adding something to it that detects how high the feature is compared to your mech, and adjusting the result, meaning 1m high 90degree terrain features no-longer stop an atlas dead etc. (if it were that extreme)

However, the problem I see people complaining about is rocks and objects are actually stopping you. Which if the way I explained above, was in effect, this would not be the case afaik. As objects dont have a "slope" that the engine knows about in a sense. They have a collision proxy that is modeled.


Why objects (rocks etc) are causing issues I don't know. I'm guessing its for some reason checking the collision proxy of the object and detecting a 90 degree angle on those tiny pebbles and so stopping the mech.

Maybe they can just exclude the new movement system from checking objects, as most rocks stop you dead already anyway....the ones large enough anway through the normal collision mechanics.

That's exactly what's going on - the slope angle is checked on the pebble and since it comes up over 45-degrees it cannot be passed.... even though it is no higher than your mech's foot?! The overall height of the object is never checked, and it needs to be. or we'll always be caught on tiny pebbles with sharp angles.

[An Ax Murderer]

I have made a thread about some of the issues mentioned in this discussion...

http://mwomercs.com/...omentum-issues/

[Kunae]

An Ax Murderer, on 04 July 2013 - 05:36 AM, said:

I have made a thread about some of the issues mentioned in this discussion...

http://mwomercs.com/...omentum-issues/

You could have just bumped this thread, as you're saying what I was saying.

[Fate 6]

NinetyProof, on 02 July 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

I don't think it's code to "make you stop" ... I think they fixed the code so that JJ's only give you upward lift. They don't apply carry-over-momentum at all.

The only reason a Mech moves forward, or backward, is because their feet are touching the ground and some sort of pressure is being applied. If the feet are no longer touching the ground, you will quickly lose forward (or backward) momentum. I believe what they did was to divest JJ's from having any effect what-so-ever on this momentum.

Same with when your feet actually touch the ground ... that is stationary pressure. If you are stopped, and can't move forward, applying forward pressure is not going to do anything.

Working as intended I believe. The only gripe that seems to be valid is just how *fast* momentum is lost ... that *is* something they can tweak easily.

NinetyProof, on 02 July 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

I don't think it's code to "make you stop" ... I think they fixed the code so that JJ's only give you upward lift. They don't apply carry-over-momentum at all.

The only reason a Mech moves forward, or backward, is because their feet are touching the ground and some sort of pressure is being applied. If the feet are no longer touching the ground, you will quickly lose forward (or backward) momentum. I believe what they did was to divest JJ's from having any effect what-so-ever on this momentum.

Same with when your feet actually touch the ground ... that is stationary pressure. If you are stopped, and can't move forward, applying forward pressure is not going to do anything.

Working as intended I believe. The only gripe that seems to be valid is just how *fast* momentum is lost ... that *is* something they can tweak easily.

What? Your physics is very flawed here. If a mech is in the air, they keep their speed (mostly, air resistance is negligible) because they had that speed when they left the ground. They then have that forward speed when they land, because they haven't lost it.

[Kunae]

Objects in motion, tend to stay in motion, unless acted upon by an outside force.