119 replies to this topic

[Padic]

Belorion, on 12 July 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:

Even more contradictorily, the current complaint about the 12 v 12 test server is that all the maps are too small for 12 v 12. People aren't happy no matter what you do.

PGI listens to the community too much, I think. If you listen to everyone's input (that is, taken average of community opinions), I don't see how you could end up with anything but a perfectly average game.

I'd rather PGI stick to their vision of what they want, and really commit to making it work. Forum-whiners be dammed.

[Lugh]

MadcatX, on 02 July 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

A while back:
"We want bigger maps"

Present:
"Remove bigger maps"

You can make some people happy some of the time, you absolutely cannot make ALL people happy ALL the time.

[MrMasakari]

I think for 12v12 it will be fine, but I think its just too big for 8v8, just my opinion.

[Belorion]

I think we need a map about twice the size of alpine.

[canned wolf]

I drive an Atlas the majority of the time and I love Alpine. There is plenty of cover on that map if you stay close to it. There are big wide open areas you can blunder in to, but why would you? The map is huge, which means you need to commit to a plan early, otherwise you may never get to a fight. You have to use your scouts to figure out where the enemy is and what their disposition is. A lot of eight mans get screwed because they are min maxed for the other maps, so when they have to split up to cover points, they get murdered.

The main thing to remember on Alpine is, do not engage unless it is to your advantage. If the other team wants to sit back and snipe, take points and let them sit.

[Tharkan Stuermer]

Spudbuddy, on 02 July 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

There's nothing to like, it's too huge, the points in conquest generate too fast, the bases cap too fast, the terrain is designed terribly, it's 2-3x too big even for a 12 player map, there's nothing good about it.

If you're Mech is a poor choice, its not the map's fault.
The size of a map is an excellent tool for tonnage balancing. Right now, the maps are almost all far too small, Alpine is the only notable exception. This results in the recent over-abundance of Assault-Mechs (which are, in fact, supposed to be produced in very small numbers, if you remember), and close-range sluggers, like the AC/20 Jager.

Edited by Tharkan Stuermer, 14 July 2013 - 12:34 PM.

[Fire and Salt]

I love this map when I have long range weapons; I "hate" it when I don't. Regardless, it is a unique map and should certainly stay. I put "hate" in quotes because I know I am at a disadvantage in that case, but it is still fun to try and play it well with short range - and I have. It is rewarding when you can use the little cover that there is to push right through an LRM team on their "own turf."

[Woozle]

Blue Footed Booby, on 03 July 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

... Unless both teams wait for intel before moving the bulk of their mechs out ...

How the bloody hell did we get to the point where gathering intel before committing to a course of action is considered a bad thing?

Go play Call of BattleSide. This is not the game you are looking for.

I DO NOT WANT AN ARCADE SHOOTER. For the love of Pete, let me have ONE FOOKING GAME that I can enjoy playing. You twitch kiddies have DOZENS of games to choose from. Go play something else.

[blinkin]

Woozle, on 15 July 2013 - 07:41 AM, said:

How the bloody hell did we get to the point where gathering intel before committing to a course of action is considered a bad thing?

Go play Call of BattleSide. This is not the game you are looking for.

I DO NOT WANT AN ARCADE SHOOTER. For the love of Pete, let me have ONE FOOKING GAME that I can enjoy playing. You twitch kiddies have DOZENS of games to choose from. Go play something else.

you are working very hard to date yourself, with the Cake lyrics in your signature and the general get off my lawn attitude.

but i do completely agree. it would be nice to have a game that involved just a little bit of thought beyond "which way should i point when i pull the trigger"

i would just like a little more concealment scattered around the map. ya know maybe have just a few trees on ALPINE.

[Homeless Bill]

I voted for everything because I could. Alpine should not be removed. It does need some serious editing though. Right now, it plays out so similarly every time.

[Woozle]

blinkin, on 15 July 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

you are working very hard to date yourself, with the Cake lyrics in your signature and the general get off my lawn attitude.

but i do completely agree. it would be nice to have a game that involved just a little bit of thought beyond "which way should i point when i pull the trigger"

i would just like a little more concealment scattered around the map. ya know maybe have just a few trees on ALPINE.

Well, since I don't consider my age to be a bad thing, I don't try to cover it up. My generation made gaming mainstream. I didn't stop loving video games on my 30th birthday. I will still play video games when I'm 60.

It would be nice if game developers/publishers would figure out that I have more disposable income than the 15-25 demographic they chase, and therefore should make games that appeal to me, but that's another discussion.

Mostly, I've been waiting for a good MechWarrior game for quite a long time and I want this one to be fun. Sorry you feel that I'm being a cranky old man. It's not so much "get off my lawn" as it is "don't try to make this game another generic FPS".

I remember the original Dune RTS, and then Command&Conquer, etc. Then Starcraft came out. Then every RTS game for a decade was just another lame Starcraft clone. We don't need MechWarrior to be an arcade shooter - we've got plenty of those. What we don't have any of is mech battle sims.

[blinkin]

Woozle, on 16 July 2013 - 07:04 AM, said:

Well, since I don't consider my age to be a bad thing, I don't try to cover it up. My generation made gaming mainstream. I didn't stop loving video games on my 30th birthday. I will still play video games when I'm 60.

It would be nice if game developers/publishers would figure out that I have more disposable income than the 15-25 demographic they chase, and therefore should make games that appeal to me, but that's another discussion.

Mostly, I've been waiting for a good MechWarrior game for quite a long time and I want this one to be fun. Sorry you feel that I'm being a cranky old man. It's not so much "get off my lawn" as it is "don't try to make this game another generic FPS".

I remember the original Dune RTS, and then Command&Conquer, etc. Then Starcraft came out. Then every RTS game for a decade was just another lame Starcraft clone. We don't need MechWarrior to be an arcade shooter - we've got plenty of those. What we don't have any of is mech battle sims.

supreme commander is actually a decent RTS that involves large scale tactics. it is basically an upgraded version of total annihilation, if you recognize that title. far better than the "competitive" crap that has generally taken over.

[Barantor]

Alpine is a fine map and would be a great map with a few tweaks to cover and base placement

With more game modes this will still be a good map just because of the size if nothing else. I would love more maps the same size of Alpine especially with new game modes like ctf/koth/etc.

I do agree that the tower side does have a defensive advantage, but it can lose too if the team gets impatient or blows it's cover.

[Odins Fist]

Alpine is an OK map, it needs a severe re-design though... There is so much space that is wated on that map it's quite ridiculous, there are areas of that map that probably have never been set foot on by a Mech, and that is no exaggeration.
I would have to guess that there is 40% to 50% of the map that doesn't see any combat 99.99999% of the time.

Alpine = lots of wasted map/space never used in combat, and i'm not talking about the Mountain Peaks after the movement patch either. No deabte, just fact.

[AC]

People are concentrating on the wrong issue. Alpine is an awesome map! I was happy to FINALLY have a map roughly the size of a MW4 map.

The issue is that PGI doesn't have team deathmatch. The capping is the issue, NOT the map.

[Typhoon Storm 2142]

AC, on 16 July 2013 - 08:04 PM, said:

People are concentrating on the wrong issue.
...
The capping is the issue, NOT the map.

What? Capping is the issue? You don't know what you're talking about. Maybe you should actually think before you post something.

[zorak ramone]

MadcatX, on 02 July 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

A while back:
"We want bigger maps"

Present:
"Remove bigger maps"

Gamers frequently don't know what they really want (seriously).

I'm not a big fan of alpine, but the mess that is Terra Therma makes it look a hell of a lot better.

[Alreech]

Woozle, on 16 July 2013 - 07:04 AM, said:

We don't need MechWarrior to be an arcade shooter - we've got plenty of those. What we don't have any of is mech battle sims.

I would cry for joy if MWO was an arcade shooter like Battlefield 2.

While it was very arcade (easy to learn and with easy controls) it has had working tools for improving teamwork between players.
I would like to have an easy to use Lance Commander interface like the Squadleader interface of Battlefield 2 so I could set Navpoints and issue Attack/Defend orders without going to battlegrid and become a fixed target.
I would like to have a real spotting systems that tells every Lancemate "Enemy spotted in E4" if I spot an enemy, instead of typing it to chat.
I would like to have a quick chat menu to Issue Orders like "Retreat" "Follow me" "Cover me" "Go Go Go" "Regroup" "i Attack" to Lancemates without using teamspeak or c3.

MWO is in a certain sense arcade: You don't need a lot of teamwork if you put two PPCs and a Gausrifle in a Mech and can blast away small and medium Mechs with one hit. It's like Quake III or Unreal tournament.
No need for other players to scout, no need for other players to mark targets for LRMs,

It's the same like in Battlefield 2, were you also don't need teamwork if you play Anti-Tank soldier on Inf only maps to use the guided AT-Missle to "oneshootkill noobs without skillz to play right".
Most of those guys played only Karkand, because the other maps are to big, so you can't hopping around as AT and you have to fall back to teamplay.

Sounds familiar, right ?
If Alpine is removed from the game Caustic Valley and Tourmaline Desert would follow. So I vote no.
And if the MWO Players are ever able to choose the Maps before joining Servers only "Karkand River City" will be played.

[PropagandaWar]

Slap some factories/forest patches and big fraggin Eggships on it and call it a day.

[Sephlock]

Alreech, on 02 August 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

I would cry for joy if MWO was an arcade shooter like Battlefield 2.

While it was very arcade (easy to learn and with easy controls) it has had working tools for improving teamwork between players.
I would like to have an easy to use Lance Commander interface like the Squadleader interface of Battlefield 2 so I could set Navpoints and issue Attack/Defend orders without going to battlegrid and become a fixed target.
I would like to have a real spotting systems that tells every Lancemate "Enemy spotted in E4" if I spot an enemy, instead of typing it to chat.
I would like to have a quick chat menu to Issue Orders like "Retreat" "Follow me" "Cover me" "Go Go Go" "Regroup" "i Attack" to Lancemates without using teamspeak or c3.

MWO is in a certain sense arcade: You don't need a lot of teamwork if you put two PPCs and a Gausrifle in a Mech and can blast away small and medium Mechs with one hit. It's like Quake III or Unreal tournament.
No need for other players to scout, no need for other players to mark targets for LRMs,

It's the same like in Battlefield 2, were you also don't need teamwork if you play Anti-Tank soldier on Inf only maps to use the guided AT-Missle to "oneshootkill noobs without skillz to play right".
Most of those guys played only Karkand, because the other maps are to big, so you can't hopping around as AT and you have to fall back to teamplay.

Sounds familiar, right ?
If Alpine is removed from the game Caustic Valley and Tourmaline Desert would follow. So I vote no.
And if the MWO Players are ever able to choose the Maps before joining Servers only "Karkand River City" will be played.

Tourmaline has actual obstacles and so does Caustic.

Alpine is AWP map with radioactive snow.