78 replies to this topic

[Stonefalcon]

I will feast on the tears of the foolish as I steamroll with my Thor's Hammer 8Q

[Victor Morson]

Stonefalcon, on 02 July 2013 - 09:40 PM, said:

I will feast on the tears of the foolish as I steamroll with my Thor's Hammer 8Q

If you're in an 8Q, the only tears of the foolish you may be feasting on are your own.

[Stonefalcon]

Victor Morson, on 02 July 2013 - 09:45 PM, said:

If you're in an 8Q, the only tears of the foolish you may be feasting on are your own.

Explain that to the dozens of PPC Stalker boats I've dueled and beaten. The Stalker can only provide sheer brute force and there's more to warfare than that.

[Victor Morson]

Stonefalcon, on 02 July 2013 - 09:53 PM, said:

Explain that to the dozens of PPC Stalker boats I've dueled and beaten. The Stalker can only provide sheer brute force and there's more to warfare than that.

A good Awesome pilot will beat a bad Stalker pilot. A good stalker pilot will beat a good Awesome pilot. Besides if you're running PPCs + Awesome you should be in a 9M, not an 8Q, since at least that's fast.

Awesome are just bad right now.

PS: I'm a massive Awesome fan in BattleTech so it hurts to say that.

Edited by Victor Morson, 02 July 2013 - 10:11 PM.

[Stonefalcon]

Victor Morson, on 02 July 2013 - 10:06 PM, said:

A good Awesome pilot will beat a bad Stalker pilot. A good stalker pilot will beat a good Awesome pilot. Besides if you're running PPCs + Awesome you should be in a 9M, not an 8Q, since at least that's fast.

Awesome are just bad right now.

PS: I'm a massive Awesome {Noble MechWarrior} in BattleTech so it hurts to say that.

Unfortunately I won't pass on this mech's build but I can say you would be proud of it. As for the 9M another company member uses one with a similar build and we join up all the time engaging the same targets but the 8Q keeps coming out on top.

Maybe it's cause I've spent more time in the 8Q then any other mech, I've used the same build since the Awesome was released, it's role was a direct fire support mech and it did it's job very well. Only problem now is eveyr man and his dog uses a similar build because of the way PPC's are right now. IMHO they should return the heat to 9 or 10.

[Dephylr]

SpartanFiredog317, on 02 July 2013 - 09:32 PM, said:

Solution to PPC Online:

1.) SRM/SSRM Damage to 2.5
2.) Up LPL damage to 12, shorten beam duration and boost optimal/max range to 400/750
3.) Make PPC take 2 additional crit spaces (5 total)

Yeah, because 90 point alpha splat cats and 72 point alpha stalkers are what kids want in their cereal. Also, if you increase the ppc to 5, you can still boat 4 provided you remove ES and run a smaller engine. Your aforementioned fixes just give people other things to create qq threads about.

[Stonefalcon]

SpartanFiredog317, on 02 July 2013 - 09:32 PM, said:

Solution to PPC Online:

1.) SRM/SSRM Damage to 2.5
2.) Up LPL damage to 12, shorten beam duration and boost optimal/max range to 400/750
3.) Make PPC take 2 additional crit spaces (5 total)

I pay to see your face when you learn the Clan ERPPC does 15 damage, for 11 heat (With PGI's current heat for the ERPPC), shoots out slightly farther than the IS model, weighs 1 tonne less and only takes up 2 crit slots. 90 damage alphas? Yes please.

[MustrumRidcully]

xDeityx, on 02 July 2013 - 08:30 PM, said:

I remain cautiously optimistic that it won't go in as described at all. Half an hour or so into one of the last NGNG podcasts (sorry for the vagueness, hopefully someone else can link to it...I just clicked a link in another post) Russ Bullock mentioned something about being dubious about the changes that Paul came up with because they weren't intuitive for new players. So there's a tiny glimmer of hope.

That is also a big point.

How do you communicate this? It's non-intuitive, and you end up with newbies being gimped because they don't know they are punished for whatever build they migh thave come up with.

If this is the game that needs 3PV to get enough new customers despite 80 % (low *******) of the players not wanting 3PV, you can't tell me that an arcane system like this is a good idea.

[CancR]

Lights are still impacted the most by these ******** nerfs.

[Deathlike]

I love how this patch allows my HGN-732 to acquire a 4+ K-D ratio. I mean... thanks Paul for Easy Mode™.

[Rippthrough]

Victor Morson, on 02 July 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

The PPC Stalker is dead.

Long live the PPC Stalker.

Literally the first thing I said in the first game after the patch...

[Victor Morson]

CancR, on 02 July 2013 - 10:52 PM, said:

Lights are still impacted the most by these ******** nerfs.

Lights and mediums, that were supposed to be (and still could be) massively buffed by this change are hit REALLY hard, honestly.

I cannot count the amount of times in my brawler cent now that I've turned down a hill that seems fine, but goes a degree or two too high and suddenly I'm at 40% speed, seemingly without warning.

Momentum does not work like that. You can't run up a 40 degree surface but suddenly come to half speed at 41 degrees and a dead stop at 45. It's artificial feeling and is just horrendous.

[jeffsw6]

Valore, on 02 July 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:

Its like they're trying to prove they don't think their patches through.

What was your first clue?

[Jonny Taco]

How long is it going to take people to understand that the issue is not with ppcs, or heat, or heat threshold... The problem is with the current crit slot fitting syste.

As has been stated hundreds of times since cb to now, a new mechanic involving a maximum size for each weapon hardpoint (varying between mechs and variants) is the only way we're ever going to see this issue resolved...

Edited by lartfor, 03 July 2013 - 05:09 AM.

[arghmace]

Valore, on 02 July 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:

Basically, noobs are now no longer allowed to boat PPCs. Only pro 4 PPC Stalkers, who never overheated in the first place, may boat them and own all your faces.

Well cry me a river. This is supposed to be a skill game, ain't it? I honestly cannot understand how you can complain about this. Should we maybe remove the heat entirely to make noobs happy?

[jeffsw6]

Yeah but his "fix" is to add random cone-of-fire! Most of the "skill crowd" seem to hate that idea.

I think the only novelty of it would be, if each weapon had its own cone, then a 9ML HBK firing all his weapons would be pretty hilarious.

[Appogee]

Roland, on 02 July 2013 - 06:13 PM, said:

What's funny is that I'm seeing a lot of 6 PPC builds tonight, and it doesn't even seem to be phasing them anyway.

Ironically I'm about to get back into levelling Stalkers, which will probably mean me using PPC/Gauss combinations for pretty much the first time.

So I will be arriving at the boating party after the police have arrived and issued misdemeanour notices . (This isn't such a bad thing, as I actually try to avoid cheese where possible.)

By the way, the issue not just the PPCs, it's the convergence of those PPCs and the pinpoint alphas they produce. Fix convergence and at least half the problem is solved.

Edited by Appogee, 03 July 2013 - 05:28 AM.

[Prezimonto]

This fix is going in as prep to the follow up (stupid) bonus heat build up on boated weapons (over 3ppcs). It's the combination of bonus heat and this heat penalty that they THINK will fix the problem, except they aren't really going to nerf 4 PPC or 2x AC20's with this because the heat threshold on double heat sinks is too high. If heat sinks didn't give threshold, just ever greater cool down... THEN this might work.

[Aim64C]

Prezimonto, on 03 July 2013 - 06:07 AM, said:

This fix is going in as prep to the follow up (stupid) bonus heat build up on boated weapons (over 3ppcs). It's the combination of bonus heat and this heat penalty that they THINK will fix the problem, except they aren't really going to nerf 4 PPC or 2x AC20's with this because the heat threshold on double heat sinks is too high. If heat sinks didn't give threshold, just ever greater cool down... THEN this might work.

Edit: ... Silly IE 10... cramping my mashing of the return key....

Anyway - I think the real solution to 'boating' is a more comprehensive hardpoint system. Using MechWarrior 4 and MechCommander 2 for inspiration might be a good idea.

Mech 4's Hardpoint system:



Mech Commander 2's mechlab system:



By combining the 2d 'space requirement' of MC2 with the hardpoint system of MW4 - you could maintain rather strict control over the number of small weapons that can be placed in a large weapon slot, and the number of large weapons that can be placed on a mech to begin with.

I know that's going to cramp the style of 'purists' who want to follow tabletop rules... but if we were doing that, then a lot of the customization we've been doing would be tossed out.

Of course - it would also be interesting to make engine rating figure into weapon recycle times. Each engine is a power rating - movement would require a certain amount of power, and so would recharging various weapons (particularly energy weapons). Each weapon has a certain joule rating that must be supplied by the engine. If you have a small engine in an assault, it's going to take a while to recharge all of those PPCs, especially if you try to walk somewhere while doing so.

Ballistics and missiles would require the least amount of power to operate (though missiles would plausibly require more because of microwave systems to paint the target for missile guidance). Spare for the gauss rifle, that is.

Though I'm not sure if that would actually be a good idea... or just lead to even more turret battles.

Edited by Aim64C, 03 July 2013 - 07:39 AM.

[Prezimonto]

Oh, don't get me wrong.. I think this is a stupid way to balance boating, but it's at least an attempt which is better than the last 12 months has seen.

Read Doc Bach's writing up on a convergence reticule, or your (and similar, excellent, ideas on hard point restrictions), or actually giving both a bonus and a penalty to all the upgrades the way Artemis and XL engines currently work(imagine if Double Heat Sinks came with a real penalty for use like no increased heat cap vs. singles which cool down vastly slower but give increased heat cap high heat weapons would get only 2 shots off in most combats and then have 30 seconds or more before firing again), or a power generation system where your engine size restricts the size if your alpha strike, or.. hell there's more ways than that and many of them have a history in the setting.

They heat balance system is stupid because its artificial and non-intuitive, not because it might not work.