84 replies to this topic

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

you mean where 28k dial up was "moving on up" and 58k was "silver spoons"

[Victor Morson]

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 03 July 2013 - 02:40 AM, said:

you mean where 28k dial up was "moving on up" and 58k was "silver spoons"

From here out I'm just enjoying the troll show.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

Victor Morson, on 03 July 2013 - 02:47 AM, said:

From here out I'm just enjoying the troll show.

your not a pedfile are you? my dad is a cop. its starting to feel like stalking. The US government passed laws protecting people like me form people like you,.

[Unbound Inferno]

Its a bit of everything, to be sure.

The mechanics are a good step forward towards making this game more real, but the application is a bit steep. Tweaking can make it work, they just need to actually work on that.

[Victor Morson]

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 03 July 2013 - 02:51 AM, said:

your not a pedfile are you? my dad is a cop. its starting to feel like stalking. The US government passed laws protecting people like me form people like you,.

Excellent trolling, +1.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

Victor Morson, on 03 July 2013 - 02:52 AM, said:

Excellent trolling, +1.

id rather have a cookie

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 03 July 2013 - 02:53 AM, said:

id rather have a cookie

You can't have a cookie, because you pilot a 4X

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

DV McKenna, on 03 July 2013 - 02:58 AM, said:

You can't have a cookie, because you pilot a 4X

thats ok. Ill just take thier lunch money and buy a cookie as their mech lays dead shocked a 4x owned them.

Edited by Funkadelic Mayhem, 03 July 2013 - 03:07 AM.

[Randalf Yorgen]

[

Victor Morson, on 02 July 2013 - 08:10 PM, said:

One of the best advances in MW:O over previous MechWarrior titles was the ability to climb any terrain on the map effectively, really bringing the spirit of "'mechs are mobility" to life. In fact, it made several maps that looked really bad and "path laden" into far more interesting, dynamic maps. Previous games couldn't deliver this because physics and animation had not yet caught up to it. In fact, MW4 didn't even use bones!

But those of us who played MechWarrior 4 for years know that you could get up just about any terrain: Move side to side to get velocity, turn sharply and gun it - eventually you'll make your way up things. It never felt very good, and felt like obvious gaming the system more than any kind of simulation element. Living Legends had the exact same issue.

... so here comes MW:O, with it's awesome dynamic animation system that allows for this movement. It's really good and one of the big things MW:O does did better than any MW game before it. And now, it's dead.

Let me first state I am in favor of the overall movement system. I think that by making Assaults go much slower up terrain, and lights go much faster up steep/rough terrain, you're effectively giving lights, mediums and even smaller heavies a huge advantage that they've needed for some time now!

For example, I think it would be awesome if a Centurion pilot would suffer only a 20% speed hit or some such on steep terrain, while a Atlas might take an 80% hit - now figuring in their typical speeds, that means the Centurion could outmaneuver an Atlas massively on a hill. That's awesome and the concept behind the speed system allows for that to happen.

That's not what's going on. The speed nerfs don't mean anything the way they are, other than "stuck spots." Effectively one of two things happen when you go up a hill and fail:

1: The hill ends up being just a tiny bit too steep, and your speed suddenly rushes to zero.
2: You hit a rock, pebble, slight mount of dirt that increases the angle by a degree too far, speed rushes to zero.

This feels less "I feel like I can't climb up this hill, it's too steep!" and far more "Gah, this stuck spot/invisible war is annoying and now I have to shake loose from it!" It's a working as intended feature that has the same level of frustration as one of the most annoying classes of bugs in gaming.

.... now back to the full circle part from the topic. A few defenders of this system that insist more terrain should act as walls for many non-JJ 'mechs (and thus "corridorify them"), because you can still climb hills "with skill." Namely, the same skill we used to get around MW4's technical limitations. Rocking side to side, turning, gunning your engine, repeating.

You've literally brought an awesome nextgen feature down to the problems of the 90s, and the more I think about it, the more frustrating it is. This should not be acceptable and we should not expect people to start adapting to "rock and turn" climbing tactics just "because."

...

Long story short, terrain accessibility by other classes of 'mechs have never been a problem. Mediums and other smaller 'mechs do need an advantage and I think the ability to climb surfaces far faster than assaults - while assaults are heavily penalized - is an awesome idea and has tons of potential.

I mean, picture if they add a map with more rolling hills, for example? Mediums and lights would absolutely shine as they go up and down the hills with a minimum speed hit, while the assaults struggle to keep up. We don't need to hard lock anybody to 0 on surfaces that should otherwise be climbable, however! Just reduce their speed!

PS: Before anyone (I expect people who didn't read the OP to post this anyway) starts complaining that I'm upset I can't drive my assault up hills, I've been doing the vast majority of my testing in a 100kp/h Trebuchet 7M. So no.

...

TL/DR:
GOOD - Massive speed nerfs the bigger you are going up steep terrain. Give mediums and lights a real edge on hills!

BAD - Steep (but climbable) terrain that will knock you to 0 abruptly for getting a degree off track, while being unable to get over terrain as high as your knee that's right in front of you.

UGLY - Honestly thinking this is acceptable because you can map monkey your way out of it. Really?

AND THIS, PGI IS what we old timers have been warning you against, here is a Twitch player who is upset because he cannot just run and fly and zip all over the place on any map in any mech at any time without penalty. Now that you have added a bit of reality to mech movement in their eyes it's all crap. Now I haven't searched but I bet if I did I would find that this poster is also someone who supports vectored JJ movement as well. Hate to say that we told you so PGI, but we told you so! Hey OP, get over it.... oh hey, lol you are unwilling to zig-zag so I guess you can't. Those who adapt survive those who don't we study as fossils

[Rengakun]

Randalf Yorgen, on 03 July 2013 - 03:08 AM, said:

Snip

LAWL!

First, learn to read.

Second, this is a forum for providing feedback for a game in beta testing. He's not whining.

Third, someone's gonna whine about beta being an excuse because of what I wrote.

Fourth, this is a Simulation game, not a Zig-Zag up hills game.

Fifth, JJ Vectoring is awesome and requires skill to use.

Sixth, not sure if troll or...

Edited by Rengakun, 03 July 2013 - 03:22 AM.

[Livewyr]

Usual Forum drama queen issues:

Practicality:
1: Set is so that if the incline (of any angle above 45) only has a height of 25% of the mech's height, then the mech slows to 1/4-speed for a second while it steps up the obstacle.
2: Increase the time it takes to hit zero (or 1kph) for everyone by 1 second. Beef up the "momentum" a tiny bit, to allow traverse of littler things.

There, issues solved- no drama.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

Randalf Yorgen, on 03 July 2013 - 03:08 AM, said:

[
AND THIS, PGI IS what we old timers have been warning you against, here is a Twitch player who is upset because he cannot just run and fly and zip all over the place on any map in any mech at any time without penalty. Now that you have added a bit of reality to mech movement in their eyes it's all crap. Now I haven't searched but I bet if I did I would find that this poster is also someone who supports vectored JJ movement as well. Hate to say that we told you so PGI, but we told you so! Hey OP, get over it.... oh hey, lol you are unwilling to zig-zag so I guess you can't. Those who adapt survive those who don't we study as fossils

see I see some old timers saying the opposite.
(i love the new movements btw) adds depth and the need to be aware of your environment.

[Syllogy]

Quote

Hi Folks,

Just wanted to let you know that I have just returned from a 2 week break so expect some new things to come when it comes to weapon updates/balancing.

Prior to leaving on break, I put in a series of requests for certain weapon subsystems to be implemented. These implementations have been completed but I have not had time to check them yet. Once I've checked and approved these changes, they make their way into a build. At that point QA attacks the feature set and I can start setting numbers.

Do not fear, I am VERY well aware of the hot topics right now and they will be addressed. I am not going to give numbers or timelines until the changes have been put forth into a pre-release build that will be about 2 weeks away from going live. At that time, I will fully let you know what the changes and implications of any balancing will have on the game.

From this point forward, in our quest to hit our launch date, you are going to see an aggressive series of weapon updates with each patch.

That being said, high on priority is the SRM spread/damage and the high alpha meta going on in the game. I'll update you on these as soon as the changes have been put into test.

-Paul

Post your feedback here!

[GODzillaGSPB]

Victor Morson, on 03 July 2013 - 02:30 AM, said:

Good players already caught on and are using Highlanders exclusively. Stalkers are what caught on with the PUG community though. Give it a week and everyone will be "LOL impassable terrain" as they get used to using jets to reach places you CAN'T go without them.

Lazy, cheap, boring...call them anything but please don't call them "good". They may have good stats but there is definitely more to being a good player. Winning and success is everything? But which player can honestly present his stats and tell that they were earned, truly earned?

[Syllogy]

Victor, didn't you allegedly work as a Game Tester?

If you did, you'd know why it's taking so long.

Just sayin'.

[Throat Punch]

Oh my god. I actually found a post where I agree with what Victor has written. I must call my mother-in-law and find out the temperature at her house because hell must have frozen over.

[Victor Morson]

Randalf Yorgen, on 03 July 2013 - 03:08 AM, said:

[AND THIS, PGI IS what we old timers have been warning you against, here is a Twitch player who is upset because he cannot just run and fly and zip all over the place on any map in any mech at any time without penalty.

Map monkeying =/= Simulation.

Also I've been playing since MechWarrior 1. Cresent Hawks Inception was my first BattleTech game, "old timer."

Morsdraco, on 03 July 2013 - 04:15 AM, said:

Oh my god. I actually found a post where I agree with what Victor has written. I must call my mother-in-law and find out the temperature at her house because hell must have frozen over.

I'm always glad to see unbiased people willing to agree with a post even if they generally disagree; it shows an open mind. Definitely a good thing!

Edited by Victor Morson, 03 July 2013 - 04:46 AM.

[Victor Morson]

Syllogy, on 03 July 2013 - 04:00 AM, said:

Victor, didn't you allegedly work as a Game Tester?

If you did, you'd know why it's taking so long.

Not entirely sure; I've done some with AAA companies on a couple bigger releases, and some C- shovelware companies churning out movie games and everything in between. The ways they can screw things up are without limit, lol

My favorite philosophy from one of the better studios is "If the forums are complaining every gun is overpowered, they're probably balanced. If they're not complaining about one, it probably needs to get buffed. If they're only complaining about one, we have a problem." I think it's sound advice.

EDIT: The basic philosophy in case it is missed is that generally people will complain when X or Y kills them a lot. If lots of people are complaining about all of the guns with none singled out, everything is probably fine.

If you'll notice that is not the situation we have right now.

Edited by Victor Morson, 03 July 2013 - 04:52 AM.

[Victor Morson]

GODzillaGSPB, on 03 July 2013 - 03:54 AM, said:

Winning and success is everything?

Pretty much the definition of good. Maybe not good at the game you want MW:O to be, but good at what it is. There's more to it than weight class, but being a good player starts with picking the best 'mech for the meta.

... the problem lies within the fact there IS a "best meta." There should be quite a few options available, but really, there is not. Not if you actually do, in fact, want to win.

You can argue morality all you want but nobody goes "Being a good player is losing, and failure."

Livewyr, on 03 July 2013 - 03:20 AM, said:

Usual Forum drama queen issues:

Practicality:
1: Set is so that if the incline (of any angle above 45) only has a height of 25% of the mech's height, then the mech slows to 1/4-speed for a second while it steps up the obstacle.
2: Increase the time it takes to hit zero (or 1kph) for everyone by 1 second. Beef up the "momentum" a tiny bit, to allow traverse of littler things.

There, issues solved- no drama.

It needs more than a second, but that would be a good start.

The "drama" lies within if PGI will do it, think it's a good idea, or defend what they've done for the next six months. Not in the actual act of fixing it.

I'm pretty sure there's a dozen ways to fix the broken PPC meta by spending 5 minutes with the XML file, too. It's been six months.

[Stonewall]

Personally the ONLY thing that I am bothered by is stuff like little statues and small rocks bringing me to a sudden halt. Those things should either be crushed or kicked out of the way. Other than that I am in Heaven.