46 replies to this topic

[MaddMaxx]

Braggart, on 03 July 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

Lemme know when you can take 6 ppcs on a mech in tabletop and have them all hit the same spot on a mech...................

The battletech rule book was designed around a turn based game, and the TT was also not balanced by mechs, but by battle value.

It is impossible to balance a competitive online real time game, based on a strategic battle value turn based game.

Deviation is a must.

Deviation is well underway. Remember how much armor your carrying? Taking 6 PPC's in MWO is a fools errand and an over-used smoke screen to mask the weak arguments put forth to try and eliminate (the supposed real threat) a 4 PPC carrier.

Drive a 6 PPC Stalker for 10 Matches, if you even get past 2, and report back. Bring that 6 PPC Boating experience to the table and not some overblown "Bandwagoneer" attitude.

[Jestun]

R3DSKULL, on 03 July 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

God im so tired of the whining about alpha boats, people always complain about some stupid new idea to fix ppc they are fine. i wonder how many of the complainers actually drive proper ppc boats? They overheat super fast they are ultra slow and yeah they got great alpha but thats it. They are a specific role type just like something with 2 ac/20s, my jager mech can put a hurting just as easy but no overheat. The fact is PPC boats are not this OP monster everyone complains they just want to stand out in the open and brawl and not get torn apart and thats idiotic. IF you see a stalker with ppcs get close if you cant dont come at him long range head on, or get him to miss twice he will overheat and now with new patch take damage. And ill say this its a nightmare to drive with the new movement system. Its a great boat for alpha and sniping and thats it. Otherwise they are fine. stick cannon and shut all the complainers up already. if they want an arcade game with 3rd person view and balanced perfectly fair even warfare go play hawken.

An argument *against* improving balance?

Why exactly are you a beta tester? To tell everyone offering feedback to L2P and stop whining?

:edit:

FYI balanced does not mean arcade.

Edited by Jestun, 03 July 2013 - 08:23 AM.

[Braggart]

R3DSKULL, on 03 July 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

God im so tired of the whining about alpha boats, people always complain about some stupid new idea to fix ppc they are fine. i wonder how many of the complainers actually drive proper ppc boats? They overheat super fast they are ultra slow and yeah they got great alpha but thats it. They are a specific role type just like something with 2 ac/20s, my jager mech can put a hurting just as easy but no overheat. The fact is PPC boats are not this OP monster everyone complains they just want to stand out in the open and brawl and not get torn apart and thats idiotic. IF you see a stalker with ppcs get close if you cant dont come at him long range head on, or get him to miss twice he will overheat and now with new patch take damage. And ill say this its a nightmare to drive with the new movement system. Its a great boat for alpha and sniping and thats it. Otherwise they are fine. stick cannon and shut all the complainers up already. if they want an arcade game with 3rd person view and balanced perfectly fair even warfare go play hawken.

Yes, that good alpha is all it takes. If my friend and I drive 2 PPC boats, and we both drop 4-6 PPCs on Your CT. Guess what, that is game over in a matter of seconds for most mechs.

They dont have to be heat effective, because when done properly, they end fights long before it gets into an extended brawl.

Also, why are you telling someone to get close to a PPC stalker, PPCs still do damage under 90. regular PPCS are also not all that hot.


Your post is so full of flaws, and assumptions, that you completely fail to realize just how it actually plays out in game.

[R3DSKULL]

Braggart, on 03 July 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

Lemme know when you can take 6 ppcs on a mech in tabletop and have them all hit the same spot on a mech...................

The battletech rule book was designed around a turn based game, and the TT was also not balanced by mechs, but by battle value.

It is impossible to balance a competitive online real time game, based on a strategic battle value turn based game.

Deviation is a must.

i disagree with this statement a deviation isnt a must cannon is a must and people complaining about it should adapt strats its like someone complaining about ECM then when its not there to protect them from getting LRM whored they wonder where the ECM is. 6 PPC boats are fine they dont need a nerf they overheat and are specialized units easily beaten by adapting your play style to them. If you could fire 4 or 5 shots before overheating i might start to listen to all the ppc whining but the fact that its a 1 2 overheat if your lucky. in any combat game its not smart to stand out in the open. Besides there will always be inbalance you will never find it unless you creat it from the start. by not following another games set of rules. This is mech warrior from battletech stick to that.

[MaddMaxx]

Jestun, on 03 July 2013 - 08:17 AM, said:

[/size]

Try setting it to English, it's quite simple.

Specific boat builds are OP. Boats as a whole are not.

If you punish boats as a whole you punish non-OP builds. Balance changes are not supposed to be nerfing weak builds...

You mean the Energy Builds right? Or is 2 AC20's a OP boat, or 4 AC5's? or or or or. Let's just give all Chassis 2 energy slots, one in each torso, for balance purposes. Then replace those removed with Ballistic or Missile HP's. System solved.

[R3DSKULL]

Braggart, on 03 July 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

Yes, that good alpha is all it takes. If my friend and I drive 2 PPC boats, and we both drop 4-6 PPCs on Your CT. Guess what, that is game over in a matter of seconds for most mechs.

They dont have to be heat effective, because when done properly, they end fights long before it gets into an extended brawl.

Also, why are you telling someone to get close to a PPC stalker, PPCs still do damage under 90. regular PPCS are also not all that hot.


Your post is so full of flaws, and assumptions, that you completely fail to realize just how it actually plays out in game.

your out of your mind ppcs dont hit under 90 only Er ppcs do and they overheat super fast. if your facing 2 or more ppc boats use your terrain to deal with them its not as if they are invicible they are slow and overheat easily. So its your statement thats full of flaws.

[Braggart]

MaddMaxx, on 03 July 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

Deviation is well underway. Remember how much armor your carrying? Taking 6 PPC's in MWO is a fools errand and an over-used smoke screen to mask the weak arguments put forth to try and eliminate (the supposed real threat) a 4 PPC carrier.

Drive a 6 PPC Stalker for 10 Matches, if you even get past 2, and report back. Bring that 6 PPC Boating experience to the table and not some overblown "Bandwagoneer" attitude.

I drive a 4 PPC awesome, and it is freaking brutal. The stalker just makes it easier. I have done the 6 ppc and it runs hot, but it is very dominating. Because when with teammate, heat isnt important, instant damage is. If 4 people can drop all their alphas on 1 location, its game over for that mech.

[Jestun]

MaddMaxx, on 03 July 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

You mean the Energy Builds right? Or is 2 AC20's a OP boat, or 4 AC5's? or or or or. Let's just give all Chassis 2 energy slots, one in each torso, for balance purposes. Then replace those removed with Ballistic or Missile HP's. System solved.

I'm not getting into which builds I personally think are unbalanced, that's not the point here.

The point is that if you punish all boats then many builds which do not need a nerf get a nerf.

You do not need to make all mechs nearly identical to be balanced.

[Braggart]

R3DSKULL, on 03 July 2013 - 08:27 AM, said:

your out of your mind ppcs dont hit under 90 only Er ppcs do and they overheat super fast. if your facing 2 or more ppc boats use your terrain to deal with them its not as if they are invicible they are slow and overheat easily. So its your statement thats full of flaws.

oh my dear god.

THIS GUY THINKS THAT PPCS DONT DEAL ANY DAMAGE UNDER 90 METERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! EVERYONE SEE THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MaddMaxx]

Braggart, on 03 July 2013 - 08:27 AM, said:

I drive a 4 PPC awesome, and it is freaking brutal. The stalker just makes it easier. I have done the 6 ppc and it runs hot, but it is very dominating. Because when with teammate, heat isnt important, instant damage is. If 4 people can drop all their alphas on 1 location, its game over for that mech.

Fair enough. Question though?

Why do you drive a 4 PPC Awesome?

[Jestun]

R3DSKULL, on 03 July 2013 - 08:27 AM, said:

your out of your mind ppcs dont hit under 90 only Er ppcs do and they overheat super fast. if your facing 2 or more ppc boats use your terrain to deal with them its not as if they are invicible they are slow and overheat easily. So its your statement thats full of flaws.

I'd say you are a PPC user defending his build, but if you think that PPCs do 0 damage at 89 meters I assume you have barely used them (unless it changed since I last played?).

[Dawnstealer]

Or you have the weapon slots have specific sizes: that solves boating, too. Also solves the AC40 Jager meta that's dominating the game currently.

So you have, say: Tiny, Small, Medium, Large, Huge. And a weapon slot could fit any size weapon including and below its limit (so a Medium slot could fit Medium, Small, and Tiny weapons).

Tiny: Small Laser, Machine Gun

Small: Medium Laser, AC2, SRM2, SSRM, LRM5

Medium: Medium Pulse Laser, Large Laser, AC5, SRM4, LRM10

Large: Large Pulse Laser, UAC5, AC10, SRM6, LRM15, PPC

Huge: AC20, LRM20, Gauss

Boom: solved.

[MustrumRidcully]

Sug, on 02 July 2013 - 11:30 PM, said:

No one has issues with the LRM5.5, LRM11, LRM16.5 or the LRM22...

I don't make the opinions.

[Ph30nix]

there will always be boating its part of the game and there is nothing wrong with it.

There are mechs (many planned to be released) that are specificlly designed to be boats of some type. If you do anything to limit boats by hard points (either size limit or some other method) all your going to do is see less variety of boats and see even more situations where everyone is boating in the same mech.

Game will just turn into a giant Insta Gib mode of Unreal Tournament (the good version)

[KharnZor]

R3DSKULL, on 03 July 2013 - 08:27 AM, said:

your out of your mind ppcs dont hit under 90 only Er ppcs do and they overheat super fast. if your facing 2 or more ppc boats use your terrain to deal with them its not as if they are invicible they are slow and overheat easily. So its your statement thats full of flaws.

lol.
Ok, whos alt account is this?

[Weaselball]

R3DSKULL, on 03 July 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

God im so tired of the whining about alpha boats, people always complain about some stupid new idea to fix ppc they are fine. i wonder how many of the complainers actually drive proper ppc boats? They overheat super fast they are ultra slow and yeah they got great alpha but thats it. They are a specific role type just like something with 2 ac/20s, my jager mech can put a hurting just as easy but no overheat. The fact is PPC boats are not this OP monster everyone complains they just want to stand out in the open and brawl and not get torn apart and thats idiotic. IF you see a stalker with ppcs get close if you cant dont come at him long range head on, or get him to miss twice he will overheat and now with new patch take damage. And ill say this its a nightmare to drive with the new movement system. Its a great boat for alpha and sniping and thats it. Otherwise they are fine. stick cannon and shut all the complainers up already. if they want an arcade game with 3rd person view and balanced perfectly fair even warfare go play hawken.

We got a PPC boater here.

[MaddMaxx]

Dawnstealer, on 03 July 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

Or you have the weapon slots have specific sizes: that solves boating, too. Also solves the AC40 Jager meta that's dominating the game currently.

So you have, say: Tiny, Small, Medium, Large, Huge. And a weapon slot could fit any size weapon including and below its limit (so a Medium slot could fit Medium, Small, and Tiny weapons).

Tiny: Small Laser, Machine Gun

Small: Medium Laser, AC2, SRM2, SSRM, LRM5

Medium: Medium Pulse Laser, Large Laser, AC5, SRM4, LRM10

Large: Large Pulse Laser, UAC5, AC10, SRM6, LRM15, PPC

Huge: AC20, LRM20, Gauss

Boom: solved.

Perfect. Now build 3 (need a set to Elite out right) 60T Mechs (can carry any single sized weapon) under that system and have all three be viable but not identical in function.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 03 July 2013 - 08:52 AM.

[CancR]

Another "WAAA! MY BRAIN DOESN"T FIRE OFF ENOUGH SYNAPSES TO FIGURE OUT I CAN HARD COUNTER QITH MISSLE BOATS WHICH CAN TEAR A SNIPER TO SHREDS AND NOT BE IN THE LINE OF FIRE SO INSTEAD I NEED TO HAVE THE DEVS MAKE ME BETTER AT THE GAME" thread.

To bad practicing and getting good at games has gone out of style.

[Lykaon]

R3DSKULL, on 03 July 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

God im so tired of the whining about alpha boats, people always complain about some stupid new idea to fix ppc they are fine. i wonder how many of the complainers actually drive proper ppc boats? They overheat super fast they are ultra slow and yeah they got great alpha but thats it. They are a specific role type just like something with 2 ac/20s, my jager mech can put a hurting just as easy but no overheat. The fact is PPC boats are not this OP monster everyone complains they just want to stand out in the open and brawl and not get torn apart and thats idiotic. IF you see a stalker with ppcs get close if you cant dont come at him long range head on, or get him to miss twice he will overheat and now with new patch take damage. And ill say this its a nightmare to drive with the new movement system. Its a great boat for alpha and sniping and thats it. Otherwise they are fine. stick cannon and shut all the complainers up already. if they want an arcade game with 3rd person view and balanced perfectly fair even warfare go play hawken.

Ok I do pilot a PPC boat a Stalker F with 2 ER-PPC and 2 PPCs and AMS cause it fits.This mech has excellent heat to damage output easily dropping 2 4 PPC alphas back to back and a two PPC shot only 6 seconds after the second alpha has eneded cooldown.Toss in a coolshot 9 by 9 after that wait 8 seconds and repeat and guess what I just did?

Killed 2 assault mechs!

It is routine for this mech to bring in 4-5 kills for me ROUTINE!

Point,click,kill,yawn

and slow? not really 55 kph is reasonable assault mech speed not slow assault mech speed.

Armor? capped.

So I get incredible kill potential average assault mech speeds and capped armor values where is the weakness? oh right if more than two mechs charge me I can only kill two before I go down if I'm alone.

So basicaly if you're wondering the PPC boat stalker's weakness is it's only worth about 2.5 non alpha boat mechs.

[Demosthones]

SpartanFiredog317, on 02 July 2013 - 09:41 PM, said:

Imagine a MWO in which PPCs take 5 critical spaces... PPC meta goes away, but the weapon remains extremely viable and potent.... no arcane calculus needed, simply allow the weapon to be what it is a CANNON aka big n huge.... those things on the K2 and Awesome look like they should take up more than 1/3 of mech arm.

I had a post on crit slots and boating a month back. its linked here. It got the same response as yours did lol.

Edited by Demosthones, 03 July 2013 - 09:46 AM.