46 replies to this topic

[Lykaon]

CancR, on 03 July 2013 - 08:55 AM, said:

Another "WAAA! MY BRAIN DOESN"T FIRE OFF ENOUGH SYNAPSES TO FIGURE OUT I CAN HARD COUNTER QITH MISSLE BOATS WHICH CAN TEAR A SNIPER TO SHREDS AND NOT BE IN THE LINE OF FIRE SO INSTEAD I NEED TO HAVE THE DEVS MAKE ME BETTER AT THE GAME" thread.

To bad practicing and getting good at games has gone out of style.

SO let me get this straight.

You seem to think that if someone were to practice using LRMS to suppress PPC boats that would somehow gain a magical ability to defy reality?

First off something needs to be in the line of fire in order for a target to be visable.It does not have to be the missile boat but something needs to be in the line of fire.

If this something is a light mech it is killed in one blast no more spotter
if this something is 60 tons to 40 tons it's dead in 1 or 2 blasts no more spotter
if this something is a heavy or assault it's gone in 4 blasts no more spotter
if this something is a bunch of friendly mechs then the PPC sniper F'ed up and got charged and will be dead before your missiles land.No more target and no point to your mech not being a PPC boat as well.

SO let's assume that magical things do not happen and reality occurs where your team is hunkered in cover playing alpha striker wack-a-mole (you know how this game is realy played in reality)
No solid lock no spotters just flickering targets and only if they are not ECM sheilded because we all know noone got within 200m of the gun line and lived.

So let's say you catch a break and you can see a target and TAG it through the ECM.

You sweep your TAG onto the target the enemy sees the red beam and WHAM! 6 PPC nail your CT you are now without CT armor.You fire a volley.The target dips behind cover as your volley slowly sails towards them like a cloud on the breeze you lose lock.The target gets maybe 20% of the volley to connect across three or four body locations.You try again to TAG.

WHAM!WHAM!WHAM!WHAM! cycled PPC fire cores you out.

Congradulations you inflicted 20 damage and contributed next to nothing.At least if you were also a 6 PPC Stalker both mechs would have been nearly cored in one salvo.

Stop pretending that the situation isn't PPC whack a mole with all the alpha strike builds and prevelance of the idiotic seismic sensors there is no reason to not join the masses of point and click warriors who claim skill when it's just clicking on the little robot.

I have and my 4 PPC Stalker almost always brings down 4 -5 kills in a pubbie que.

[VanillaG]

Braggart, on 03 July 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

Lemme know when you can take 6 ppcs on a mech in tabletop and have them all hit the same spot on a mech...................

The battletech rule book was designed around a turn based game, and the TT was also not balanced by mechs, but by battle value.

It is impossible to balance a competitive online real time game, based on a strategic battle value turn based game.

Deviation is a must.

By that same logic, it can be said that allowing TT construction rules cannot be balanced in an online competitive real time game. Right now the ability to totally gut and reconfigure a mech is part of what is causing balance problems. Shoehorning the same loadouts into multiple mechs proves that.

While it might seem counter-intuitive, putting limits on how much/what you can customize a mech will lead to more mechs being viable. Certain mechs with certain loadouts will cater to different playstyles. People can argue that it will obsolete certain mechs but people are currently not running mechs can't boat PPC and Gauss so it would be no different.

[Braggart]

VanillaG, on 03 July 2013 - 10:19 AM, said:

By that same logic, it can be said that allowing TT construction rules cannot be balanced in an online competitive real time game. Right now the ability to totally gut and reconfigure a mech is part of what is causing balance problems. Shoehorning the same loadouts into multiple mechs proves that.

While it might seem counter-intuitive, putting limits on how much/what you can customize a mech will lead to more mechs being viable. Certain mechs with certain loadouts will cater to different playstyles. People can argue that it will obsolete certain mechs but people are currently not running mechs can't boat PPC and Gauss so it would be no different.

well. technically outside of money requirements. You could reconfigure a mech to your hearts content in most cases.

Does the average mechwarrior get to customize their mech in table top.. NO they dont, they are grunts using miltary hardware.

I disagree that it is the design process of mechs that is causing an imbalance. Even if we couldnt customize nearly as much, mechs that had multiple ppcs or guass and such would be the dominate choices.

The reason for the imbalance is multiple things, Certain weapons lump all their damage at 1 time, and follow that up with carrying multiples, and that they have perfect accuracy. Then we have a problem. The problem is somewhere on the design table for this game. It can be a combination of things. High alpha builds have always dominated mechwarrior online, I remember mechwarrior 3 was nothing but a 16 small laser shadow cat legging war.

PGI took to heart what lasers and boating did in the previous games, but did not extend it to other weapon systems. They fixed lasers, Autocannons should be like Machine guns, no reload but fire constantly. To get the full effect from Autocannons, you gotta keep your aim on the target constantly. THis would allow mechs to dish out serious damage from multiple AC20s but not a dominating amount.

Alot of things can be done to fix balance, but the the idea that lore or table top rules should be followed is quite quite silly. They were never designed to be implemented in a FPS realtime game. Just like Crit space #s and tonnages and ranges do always result in balanced weapons in a realtime environment. Even previous mechwarrior games altered those values.

[Und3rSc0re]

I already said this before but ppcs would have to take up 6 crit slots each to significantly change any of my ppc builds at all.

[CancR]

Und3rSc0re, on 03 July 2013 - 01:18 PM, said:

I already said this before but ppcs would have to take up 6 crit slots each to significantly change any of my ppc builds at all.

People have no clue what their suggestion drop so many tears actually do. the ML heat nerf and the DHS and the SRM nerf all effected my lights more then anything else, but everything else can fit more DHS in, and change out weapons where lights don't have too much variety. All these nerfs do is hurt Lights more and more.

[p00k]

crit spaces and tonnage will never be changed, because then they have to go back in and adjust the stock builds which they're not going to do. balance is going to have to come from things like range, damage, heat, cycle rate, item hp, beam durations, projectile speeds and pathing, and ammo supply.

which means there should be plenty of ways to balance weapons without even touching crits or tonnage

[CancR]

p00k, on 03 July 2013 - 02:19 PM, said:

crit spaces and tonnage will never be changed, because then they have to go back in and adjust the stock builds which they're not going to do. balance is going to have to come from things like range, damage, heat, cycle rate, item hp, beam durations, projectile speeds and pathing, and ammo supply.

which means there should be plenty of ways to balance weapons without even touching crits or tonnage

Sadly, bad suggestion will continue to pour from bad players.