58 replies to this topic

[ZeProme]

I want to know how much damage, with respect to classes ( or weight limits) should different mechs aim for. I usually do around 200-400 damage in my medium mechs in a casual match.

[Prezimonto]

For most mechs (with some notable exceptions both higher like 2xac20 builds and lower like the Spider 5V) I would argue that 100 to 150 damage per weight class (so 400 to 600 for assaults) is a good amount of damage in the current meta. 50% more is great and 50% less is poor.

[scJazz]

The damage thing all depends... I just did a match in a Heavy... 3 kills 2 assists... 254 damage. Does that mean I suck? Or does it mean I can aim? Or does it mean I stole kills?

[POOTYTANGASAUR]

300-400 a round is acceptable for a new to average player.

[Hebdomas]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet, but hitting an enemy mech's ammo and causing an ammo explosion will count for damage done. I'd say anyone with 700+ damage probably got an ammo explosion.

Also see what The Basilisk said.

In the end damage is just a number, not a metric of how well you did. Supporting your team is much more important than trying to get the biggest number possible.

[Marchant Consadine]

Koniving, on 03 July 2013 - 05:43 AM, said:

*SNIP* The YLW who scored the second highest had 1 AC/20 and 2 ML, and he last that AC/20 very early because I was one of the first people he ran into. Fastest YLW I ever seen, must've had an XL engine.

YLW is just amazing. 106kph with AC20 on arm (meaning I can actually shoot up and down). Not many mechs can do that (none other come to mind, but I'm not sure). If you lose an arm no one will shoot you anymore so you can just run around doing that 10-12 damage (MLs or MPLs) every few seconds to exposed parts of enemy mechs (I often get more kills if I lose the arm early since then I don't have to worry about being shot at ).

On topic it seems you are doing fine. If your team loses you should think what you could do better. If your team wins you should think if it was because of you or inspite of you. Numbers mean very little. When I run Jenners I might score <100 damage, but still know the win was because of me. Basically pulling half of the enemy team off to chase me while my teammates finish those that are left. Then even if the chasers kill me it's 7 against 4 and a sure victory. With assaults you can get somewhat the same effect by tanking (but you should do considerable damage while doing it).

[OrbitalDK]

I use a metric someone else originated across all mechs.

Mech tonnage *5 for damage. Or kills equal to your tonnage or greater.

If you can do either or both I think you are pulling your weight on the team.

[Koniving]

Marchant Consadine, on 03 July 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

YLW is just amazing.

I miss the CN9-AH. 2 Missile, 3 Ballistic, no Energy. Couldn't go anywhere near as fast as the YLW, but at the time missiles were heavily in favor so the AH was a threat to what the YLW could present us (why buy 2 ballistics, 2 energy and at the time the same speed when you can have 2 streaks, 3 ballistics, and still carry that AC/20?), thus it was removed. Now honestly regardless of connection the lasers are far more effective and guaranteed to do something than missiles or ballistics, that and the YLW goes even faster now. Slap the CN9-AH with a normal Centurion engine cap or something a tad bit slower and bam, we could have the AH back and YLW would still be the king worth buying.

[Kraven Kor]

scJazz, on 03 July 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

The damage thing all depends... I just did a match in a Heavy... 3 kills 2 assists... 254 damage. Does that mean I suck? Or does it mean I can aim? Or does it mean I stole kills?

THE WORLD MAY NEVER KNOW!

[Lostdragon]

scJazz, on 03 July 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

The damage thing all depends... I just did a match in a Heavy... 3 kills 2 assists... 254 damage. Does that mean I suck? Or does it mean I can aim? Or does it mean I stole kills?

Damage is obviously not the be all end all stat but it is important. Some games you will do better than others, sometimes you will get carried, and sometimes you will carry your team. Ultimately you have to ask yourself, "Did I contribute as much as I could have to the team?" If the answer is yes then you just keep doing that but if the answer is no you try to figure out what you can do better next time.

Personally when I have a game like that I usually feel I could have done better unless everyone on the team did about the same damage. If that is the case then you were just on a team of rock stars.

[Booran]

my 2 cents: you can get insane amounts of damage point without really doing any real damage (unfortunately), so don't stare yourself stupid at the numbers.
what matters are the number of mechs dead on the other team and what significant damage you can put out (destroyed components, stripped armour). Some high damage builds get quite low damage points but rack up kills due to shot placement.

tl:dr either shave the paint off a hundred mechs or cut through one mech a hundred times


(of course this all depends on your play style and team play, maybe you're a spotter/harasser that don't go for the kills)

[Marchant Consadine]

I think the discussion in this topic proves that gameplay balance ain't nearly as bad as people in some thread make it to be. Bottom line is you can be very effective in contributing to the teams win in a bunch of different roles. Sure the PPCs are a bit op at the moment, but we still have clear roles for most mech classes (and most can do several ddepending on builds). I think MWO is moving ahead very nicely.

Disclaimer: I don't know how it is with 8-man premades. If I'd make up a dream team it'd prolly be 2 lights and 6 stalkers with PPCs and LRMs, but to be honest I don't care. A game like this can never be so balanced that there wouldn't be the flavor of the month effect. Play pugs you whiners and see just how varying builds people use.

[Lostdragon]

Marchant Consadine, on 03 July 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

I think the discussion in this topic proves that gameplay balance ain't nearly as bad as people in some thread make it to be. Bottom line is you can be very effective in contributing to the teams win in a bunch of different roles. Sure the PPCs are a bit op at the moment, but we still have clear roles for most mech classes (and most can do several ddepending on builds). I think MWO is moving ahead very nicely.

Disclaimer: I don't know how it is with 8-man premades. If I'd make up a dream team it'd prolly be 2 lights and 6 stalkers with PPCs and LRMs, but to be honest I don't care. A game like this can never be so balanced that there wouldn't be the flavor of the month effect. Play pugs you whiners and see just how varying builds people use.

There are definitely balance issues, this discussion has no bearing on that one way or another. Do people run a variety of builds? Yes. Can you do well without using PPCs, GRs, and AC20s? Yes, but that does not mean everything is fine.

The difference in skill and effort required to do well in an optimal build vs. anything else is huge. I bought a HGN 733C a couple of weeks ago to mess around with. I decided just to screw around and try different builds outside the normal meta and I had fun doing it. I have a positive KDR and pretty close to 1:1 W/L record.

A few days ago I decided to buy a 732 and cheese it out. Right now that mech is at 21 wins and 5 losses with a 5.56 KDR. I have carried bad teams to victory on several occasions and it is by far the easiest mech I have played. It took weeks of practice in Jenners to accomplish what I did in that mech the first night I had it. I played 14 games and had an 8.00 KDR before I lost a match. That is insane.

[Ph30nix]

the best damage is the minimum amount of damage needed to core an enemy mech.

if you do 600+ damage and get 1-2 kills that means you were spending way to much time and ammo fighting one enemy while his buddies were trampling all over the rest of your team.

[Just wanna play]

id have to say..... 300-400??? i would like to point out slower mechs are bound to pull out low damage if their team is crushing the enemy so fast they cant even get to the fight, also imo fire support mechs should be focused on doing damage (ex:lrm boat) when in an lrm boat i don't go for someone close to death i go for someone with plenty of fight left in them while the brawlers mop up, think of fire support as an extension of the brawlers, brawlers control what fire support attacks

Edited by Just wanna play, 03 July 2013 - 12:02 PM.

[RF Greywolf]

Just wanna play, on 03 July 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:

id have to say..... 300-400??? i would like to point out slower mechs are bound to pull out low damage if their team is crushing the enemy so fast they cant even get to the fight, also imo fire support mechs should be focused on doing damage (ex:lrm boat) when in an lrm boat i don't go for someone close to death i go for someone with plenty of fight left in them while the brawlers mop up, think of fire support as an extension of the brawlers, brawlers control what fire support attacks

I normally run fire support and I always thought the primary goal of a fire support is to soften up the enemy. If I get told a mark then I focus on the mark, if I don't get told a mark then I go for the healthiest target to start softening them up and maybe get them to stop shooting at my brawlers and heavy hitters. If I finish the game with 5+ assists then that was a good run of fire support.

cents...
Greywolf

[Just wanna play]

Adran, on 03 July 2013 - 05:03 AM, said:

(aside from taking just a bit less time to deal full damage).

dont forget the other benefits of shorter fire duration, pulses start recharging earlier (and there for have faster fire rate) and you also start dissipating heat earlier, unfortunately they did make the lpl USELESSLY hot for now :/

[Adran]

Just wanna play, on 03 July 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

dont forget the other benefits of shorter fire duration, pulses start recharging earlier (and there for have faster fire rate) and you also start dissipating heat earlier, unfortunately they did make the lpl USELESSLY hot for now :/

IMO, that doesn't negate the downsides of the Pulse lasers enough to really make it an upside, and in some ways actually CONTRIBUTES to the downsides as it also makes the HPS higher due to the faster fire rate. That said, your sig has me curious about your mech now.

[Dawnstealer]

zraven7, on 03 July 2013 - 05:50 AM, said:

400 damage is fine. Damage as a scale is kinda a funny thing. A low damage can mean not hitting, or very precise hitting. If I'm in my Jenner, and I drop 2 mediums with 3 alpha strikes to the backplate each, that's only180 damage, but it's 2 kills.

Honestly, just ask your team, especially if you're on Voice Chat with someone. They'll let you know. As a general rule, however, anything over 200 is helping, and anything over 300 is a good game.

This one: I've had games where I had 800 damage, and our team was the victim of a 1-8 steamroller. I've had games where I've had 200 damage, but several kills in one-on-one brawls. It all depends on the game, your teammates, how the team played, tactics, and so on.

I really wish damage wasn't such a huge factor in how many c-bills you get, but it is, soooo....yeah.

[Renalvic3312]

If used properly, lights can do much more damage than assaults.