58 replies to this topic

[Hammerhai]

My answer is gonna be the one you don't like. It depends.
My one shining example of damage done is 255 against a single opponent me and a Spider fought. 255, but no kill. I think you are doing fairly ok in an assault, actually.

Look at the whole picture
What was the situation?
How many assists?
How much damage did you tank?
How much damage?
How many kills?
And then the beeeg e peen thang. The K/D ratio.

Three statisticians went out hunting, and came across a large deer. The first statistician fired, but missed, by a meter to the left. The second statistician fired, but also missed, by a meter to the right. The third statistician didn't fire, but shouted in triumph, "On the average we got it!"

Did you hear about the politician who promised that, if he was elected, he'd make certain that everybody would get an above average income?



There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Attributed by Mark Twain to Benjamin Disraeli

<a name="564">Logic is a systematic method for getting the wrong conclusion with confidence.
Statistics is a systematic method for getting the wrong conclusion with 95% confidence.
But always remember the statisticians' chant
Correlation does not equal causation

If you just like statistics, try the Java program by SjurWareagle to add a few. Note it is still under development. Also note that you have to give it your login details unencrypted. Members of the community have tested it and found it clean. My play account is still intact too, so the guy gets my vote. As long as you cannot trade mechs and gift mc, things will stay that way, too. PGI does that right IMHO.

The name:
Mechcollect. Should even be in this forum, too

[Hammerhai]

link to mechcollect:
http://mwomercs.com/...ved-statistics/

I find tracking actual damage per hit insanely frustrating, personally... Shows me my suckage

Edited by Hammerhai, 03 July 2013 - 12:44 PM.

[The Black TrollWarrior]

if your good like me you wouldn't be asking this question...but I guess your not. so you should be doing anywhere between 300-500. But that's only if your decent

[Hammerhai]

I just had a round with 2 kills (which is effing brilliant for me), and to prove a point about damage
Both were very concentrated rear centre torso shots. one a stationary dragon and one dc. Total damage over 84 shots: 247 damage including plinking at an Atlas or two. 729 xp. So that gives you an idea how variable damage can be in a good game.

[Just wanna play]

The Black TrollWarrior, on 03 July 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

if your good like me you wouldn't be asking this question...but I guess your not. so you should be doing anywhere between 300-500. But that's only if your decent

just ignore this ***** everyone (im sure you already know to), just read the name and description

[Tahribator]

Damage doesn't mean much in this game. Some weapons spread damage and do a lot of damage over time(lasers, SRM's) and some just kill outright(cheesy 3-4PPC/Gauss combinations). But still, high damage overall means you had good positioning and have been very helpful to your team.

After about 5000 games I can give you some rough numbers.

Lights: 100-250 normal for Spiders and Commandos; 100-500 normal for Jenners and Ravens. 500+ god tier
Mediums: 200-500 normal for all of them. 500+ god tier.
Heavies: 300-500 normal. 500-600 you're doing good. 800+ god tier.
Assaults: 300-600 normal. 600-700 you're doing good. 900+ destroyer of worlds.

Anything below and you've either had a very bad round(steamroll) or you have to work on your mechanics/builds.

[Mazzyplz]

here's my own little measurement spreadsheet:

0-180. > complete noob or 1 shot or should quit the game altogether.

200-285.> bad match, maybe met an ac40, or 6 ppc. what happened br0?

300-375.> pulled your own weight, could maybe have shined here but your work so far has 50% chance of winning the game

400-585.> good match! maybe got 1 or 2 kills, 3 if lucky.

600-700.> you did great, maybe had 4 kills should have 2-3. screencap this sucker !

780-1000+.> off the scale, possibly the enemy was full of noobs or you were ignored the whole match for obscure reasons.
maybe you legit kickd some serious arse though! i'd say 30% of these occurrances is because you were unstoppable or were in the zone. but that's just speaking for me, you can't be in the zone everyday. if i was better could be 35% so maybe you can get in the zone

i'd say across the scale you want to do from 180 to 300 dmg just to break even, though.
because that's the damage you expect from enemy units as well, and it's 8v8 symetrical skirmish

so yeah even though units vary on weight class and damage makign these measures a bit irrelevant;
what is relevant is the ammount you need to break even, usually 180-300 in any mech, because that's what the average
damage from an enemy unit would be of an average weight class.

the scale i posted up there is a bit pessimistic and adds in the teamie noob factor. as i like to call it.

[Tor Gungnir]

That's way off, Mazzy. You can easily get 2-3 kills with less than 200 total damage. Damage is in no way an indicator of how well you are doing... unless it is at 0.

[Mazzyplz]

gungnir that's wrong. that just meant you stole those kills from a team mate or you were farming AFKs with cockpit shots

[Tor Gungnir]

I'm fairly certain a lot of players disagree with that.

EDIT: Example. Two PPC+One AC 20 shot can insta-gib a Light mech.

Edited by Tor Gungnir, 04 July 2013 - 02:07 AM.

[Mazzyplz]

it doesn't matter if they do.

one player had to put the damage on that armor so you could come and swoop the kill with your 4 medlas.

you said 2-3 kills with 200 dmg, right? those are some weak atlas u got there, 200 dmg is about what the catapult can tank mostly with it's face and both the centurion and hunchback can endure way more when spreading that damage around.

so unless you headshot those 3 mechs when they stood still and thus making them noobs, you stole those kills with the damage someone else had made


edit: saw your edit, so you mean when facing a lance of light mechs? that's not the rule in my experience.
some lights can take some 200 dmg before going down though. and some assaults can be 1 shot when using XL but that's not what we're talking about here.

Edited by Mazzyplz, 04 July 2013 - 02:11 AM.

[Tor Gungnir]

Doesn't change the fact that damage is still a bad factor in determining how "good" you are.

If you have a lot of damage but not a single kill then you can't aim for crap, for example.

[IraqiWalker]

There is only one real way of knowing if you're doing fine or not. Is your team winning? Also, do you feel you did your job in your role?

Those two aspects are the most important. You can be the best player out there, but if you can't help your team win, you're no better than the guy who's on his first day.

I pilot lights, and in my battalioin's set up I usually end up doing little to no damage since I set up the cap feints. My best match with them in that configuration I ended up doing 350 damage with 2 kills, and 6 assists. However my average match I end up dealing maybe 100 damage with 4-6 assists, and one or no kills. However, we always end up winning. Because of the feint I set up.

As long as you can help your team and support them, fulfilling your role properly. That's it in my book.

Getting lots of damage and kills is all nice and dandy. Getting your team the win is true brilliance.

[Siegegun]

Hey mazzy! just to chime in I play a commando most of the time, I will get 2 kills sometimes in under 300 points of damage. And that is not when someone else has softened anything. I do not think the damage metric by itself is a good tool to use for how well your doing. There are a lot of other ways you can and do help the team without looking at it. If your playing conquest and you run around capping everything but do no damage, and then your the only one left on your team and you win did you play poorly? did you let down the team? I just had a game like that. I have had games where I do 30 damage but carry the team cause of capping, and games where I did 384 damage and 3 kills, all in a commando. Also, and this is just my personal opinion, last I checked this is a team based game. There are no such things as kill steals. Its 8v8 not 1v1x8. if your looking to do that you want Solaris. This is about you and 7 others taking out the enemy in any way the game allows. It is a team based game, as long as your actually doing something helpful that helps your team win the match, your doing ok.

[Taxxian]

- Some write Damage is crap, you need kills!

Well I had many situations in the last days where I fought an enemy 1 on 1 and right when his ct was cored and colorfull, someone else, not fighting up to that moment showed up released an alpha and got the kill...

So that someone is now a much better player than I am? Think again!

- Some write spreading damage arround, for example as an lrm boat, is useless?

Well the damage spreading boat unnerves the enemy and forces the to run for cover once in a while. Enemies that run for cover and make rush decicions just to get to that damn lrm boat are much easier to fight than a lance that is untouchable by direct fire safely behind cover making plans to effectively crush you.

- Some write Assaults can easier get damage than lighter ones?

A Jenner Pilot finding an badly piloted or disconnected Atlas can easily score 600 damage by just killing 1 opponent. If you, as an Assault, have a good team of heavies around you, they will probably score the same amount of damage as you, since heavies do nearly the same amount of damage as an assault. Once an enemy runs away you suck, because you team can follow, you are to slow...

- Doing 800 to 1200 damage shows skill

Ok yes it normaly does, but you only get the chance to do that if you are lucky and:
- your team mates take damage for you without effectively shooting back (if they did your enemy would die too quick to do that amount of damage)
- your opponents are mostly assaults, no one does 1000 damage to a team of 8 spiders...
- a Raven 3L that always finds something to cap in conquest, but is never challenged by an enemy does well without doing a single point of damage, that rarely happens but is possible

So neither kills nor damage really proves one being a good/bad player, the last thing you could look at is you win/loose statistic... but:

There is Elo, no one knows exactly how its calculated, if MWO judges your Elo to high you get better opponents/weaker pugs and you will loose more as it is the other way around, so even a win/loose statistic is theoreticaly not an absolute measure for your skill...

[Nebelfeuer]

It´s a team game - meaning personal statistics mean nothing. have seen 1k dmg without a kill and team being steamrolled, have seen 300 dmg with 5 kills and have seen <100 dmg+ zero kills in assault mode and still most usefull players of the match.
Statistics are nice to look at and can add to you smile after a good match and may soften your dissapointment after a bad one(assuming at least your stats were good) but they say nothing about your player qualities.

Learn to get a feeling for the match and and you will be able to judge your contribution to teams performance much more acurately than by a statistic.

Edited by Nebelfeuer, 04 July 2013 - 02:59 AM.

[Just wanna play]

Tor Gungnir, on 04 July 2013 - 02:27 AM, said:

If you have a lot of damage but not a single kill then you can't aim for crap, for example.

OR your fire support and your role isnt to kill the guy that is 10 damage away from death its to help make people 10 damage away from death

Ya know i kind of wish they said how much damage you received at the end of the match, or potential damage (like world of tanks)

[Cybermech]

for me the higher the damage at the end of the match means a lot of shots got wasted (spread around the target).

200+ is the aim of the game, depending on what your using.
Assaults to get average game would be around 300 as others have mentioned.
Like for me, I play lights and mediums which I like to make weak points on enemy mechs for my teammates to exploit.
This roughly gives me about 200-300 damage to aim for with mainly disabling mechs.

It really does depend on play styles and what makes you feel like your are doing your job.

[Stoicblitzer]

it depends on many factors. some teams do lower damage than other teams and still win because their shots were more focused. i think you're doing better than most noobs. most of them get under 100dmg in atlases and stuff.