84 replies to this topic

[YueFei]

The best short-term solution that doesn't require implementing lots of new game mechanics would be to adopt Koniving's suggestion of a hard heat cap at 30, compensated by DHS being true doubles. DPS would actually go up, there would be less waiting around to cool off, but instead of giant spikes of damage, you'd get shots spaced out over time, so you could still react and maneuver. Mechs would get struck over larger portions of their total armor, rather than getting cored-out in 2 or 3 shots.

While we're at it, remove the heat efficiency stuff from the Pilot Lab, no more Cool Run or Heat Containment. Raise PPC and ERPPC heat to canonical values. Make a shutdown last at least 5 seconds, regardless of how far past the heat cap you went. Make incredibly harsh penalties for overriding the shutdown and exceeding the heat cap, even for a moment. Reduce PPC projectile velocity to make it lack convergence against smaller targets moving laterally at speed.

Doing all of this should be programmatically feasible in a short time frame, because most of it just involves changing some stat values. The heat cap equation becomes vastly simplified... heat cap = 30, done. PPC heat at 10, ERPPC heat at 15, PPC projectile speed reduced. We can leave ERPPC projectile at a very high speed... with a hard heat cap you can't simultaneously fire more than 1 without shutting down, and to compensate for the high heat it generates a pilot should be able to hit something reliably with it. So, PPC velocity 1000, Gauss at 1200, ERPPC at 2000.

We have doubled armor, but weapons typically strike only 3 panels out of 11, rendering nearly half of the armor unused for taking hits, neatly negating the armor increase. On top of that, we have vastly increased firing rates for all weapons, and perfect convergence so that a stack of weapons all strike the same spot. In some cases only 1 armor panel is shot through for the kill (either CT, or a Side Torso on an XL-engine mech) The sudden burst of damage cannot be reacted to... whereas a series of shots spread out over even a 1 second interval gives time to twist and turn. Is it any wonder that mechs are dying so fast in this game?

Edited by YueFei, 07 August 2013 - 08:19 PM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Tehtos, on 02 August 2013 - 05:37 PM, said:

Easy to explain breaking of the limits using chassis quirks.

I would go farther and limit weapon sizes. For example max 1 huge weapon, 2 large weapons, 6 medium weapons, or 12 small weapons. The number of hard points would farther limit the number of weapons.

Any mechs that doesn't follow those rules stock are treated as quirks. The AWS-8Q is allowed an extra PPC in its arm, even if it already has 2 large weapons in its torsos. The HBK-4P is allowed 2 ML (1 in each arm) even if it already has 6 MLs in its torso.

How do you balance that quirk? What quirks do non-boater canon mechs get to compensate?

If you really want to use hard points as balancing tool, then there shouldn't be exceptions. Quirks would need to be minor.
You will not 100 % faithfully recreate canon mechs anymore, but so be it. If iyour system can't handle canon mechs without breaking, you either fix your system or you ditch canon mechs. Don't try to shoehorn them in and believe that for some magical reason players won't exploit your game system's flaws.

In such a system, the Awesome 8Q becomes a 2 PPC +1 LRM10 +1 ML mech. It might have a "+10 % heat reduction with PPCs" quirk or something minor like that, but that's it.
The Hunchback 4P gets 6 SLs in its hunch and 4 MLs in its arms, and might have as a quirk +50 % range with SLs.
The King Crab would have 2 AC/10 instead of 2 AC/20.
The Thunder Hawk would have 1 Gauss Rifle and 2 LBX-10 and a quirk that gives +10 % ROF with the Gauss Rifle.

[Khobai]

I dont believe this solution will work. While it certainly diminishes the effectiveness of single mechs boating the same weapon it will not diminish the effectiveness of an entire team boating the same weapon.

Great you stopped a stalker from have 4 ppcs. But you didnt stop his entire team from having 2 ppcs/gauss. Did you?

[Conan Librarian]

Nexus Omega, on 04 July 2013 - 06:44 PM, said:

I have an Idea, Splash Damage,

If a section of a mech takes more than 30 Damage in say 0.5 seconds, damage over the 30 is applied to adjacent areas of the mech.

So if a 3xPPC + Guass highlander shots the Centre torso of a mech, the Mech CT takes 30 damage, and the LT and RT take the remainder @ 7.5 damage each.

Boom no more 30+ Alpha's

This seems like a win to me. It deals with the problem in a simple way, doesn't nerf damage number or heat management, it affects only the main problem: some weapons' precision.

It also makes sense lore-wise since 'Mech constructors live in a world where enemy 'Mech can and will try to shoot precisily in their 'Mech weakest spot with all those PPCs and Gauss rifles, so they equip 'Mechs with armor capable to spread the damage to adjacent parts to protect vulnerable internal structure at all cost.

[Talrich]

YueFei, on 07 August 2013 - 08:13 PM, said:

The best short-term solution that doesn't require implementing lots of new game mechanics would be to adopt Koniving's suggestion of a hard heat cap at 30

I like that you focus on what is programmatically feasible, but any heat based approach, including the cap at 30, will not adequately address gauss builds. This approach also has the danger of making trial mechs even more unplayable than they already are.

Khobai, on 07 August 2013 - 11:08 PM, said:

I dont believe this solution will work. While it certainly diminishes the effectiveness of single mechs boating the same weapon it will not diminish the effectiveness of an entire team boating the same weapon.

You are right. Under damage diminishing returns you'll still get cored in five seconds if you walk into the middle of the enemy team. I don't think we should nerf teamwork. When I die due to walking into five enemies, I have no one to blame but myself.

Khobai, on 07 August 2013 - 11:08 PM, said:

Great you stopped a stalker from have 4 ppcs. But you didnt stop his entire team from having 2 ppcs/gauss. Did you?

To be clear, damage diminishing returns would affect 2xPPC + gauss. This combination would do 30 damage rather than 35 (-1 for the second PPC and -4 for the gauss). Stil, two or three opponents with 30 point alphas are going to mow you down, if they can aim and you walk into them.