306 replies to this topic

[WolvesX]

TehSBGX, on 04 July 2013 - 11:08 AM, said:

Pretty sure the whole "Bringing pulse lasers in line" thing is part of a series of tweaks to pulse lasers. Small Pulse got a buff, becuase of this so theres prolly going to be further tweaks on pulses after this. I could be wrong, but this is the only way this could make sense to me, it's part of a series of tweaks.

So why nerf it. Why do this in "parts"? Why not just wait and do the whole thing?

Paul I wanna know!

[armyof1]

There are some things in life that will always remain a mystery. And what goes on in Paul's head is certainly one of them.

[Deathlike]

I'll let Paul stick to his story.. whatever it is.

[TimePeriod]

It is quite simple really:

PGI is doing things that is contradicting the gameplay of the game community. They don't know what in the nine hell's is doing on, have no feeling or knowledge of what the community wants or needs. So they just throw something out there to act as a 'proof' that something is being done. They don't know what they are doing and that's what the community can clearly see.

[WolvesX]

TimePeriod, on 04 July 2013 - 11:38 AM, said:

It is quite simple really:

PGI is doing things that is contradicting the gameplay of the game community. They don't know what in the nine hell's is doing on, have no feeling or knowledge of what the community wants or needs. So they just throw something out there to act as a 'proof' that something is being done. They don't know what they are doing and that's what the community can clearly see.

Do you really think that?

I think Paul should comment on this!

[Victor Morson]

They sort of explained the why, but that doesn't make something a good idea.

Basically they just tried to get Pulse Lasers back to 0, so they could retweak them. Why this re-tweaking didn't happen before making them life, however.. that's where it gets silly.

[A Man In A Can]

Why? You guys really want to know?

Double the range and drop a ton. Leave everything else about it alone.

I'll let you guys figure out the rest.

Edited by CYBRN4CR, 04 July 2013 - 05:40 PM.

[TimePeriod]

What the developers think is totally irrelevant for the simple reason:

We, the players, are the bread and butter of their life. If we are not kept pleased then we leave. Simple as that. If enough people leave they can see it on their sales-charts and that may cause a spark of concern for their investors and/or advisory people. If we don't pay, they are forced to revise their game, to look into why we are so displeased.

[Tarrasque]

As others have stated, they 'nerfed' the LPL in order to bring them all into line with one another.

Ostensibly, this means that they wanted to get a baseline and collect metrics on how the lasers work in actual gameplay (rather than relying on simple math and assuming no other variables), in order to use that information to get them balanced amongst each other and versus the regular lasers.

I'm no game designer or balancer, but I see the point. PGI doesn't care about the short term rammifications and tears that come from it - they have a plan they're trying to execute, so I leave them to it.


All told, it seems to make sense to me.

[TOGSolid]

The real question is why were Pulses normalized based on the MPLs stats? MPLs are only slightly less useless than SPLs. If Pulses had been normalized based on the LPL, which was actually a solid weapon, then we theoretically should have ended up with three great guns.

[WolvesX]

TOGSolid, on 04 July 2013 - 12:07 PM, said:

The real question is why were Pulses normalized based on the MPLs stats? MPLs are only slightly less useless than SPLs. If Pulses had been normalized based on the LPL, which was actually a solid weapon, then we theoretically should have ended up with three great guns.

Another funny thing about the whole story!

[Solis Obscuri]

I think the idea was to make them equally bad as the Small Pulse Lasers.

[armyof1]

Tarrasque, on 04 July 2013 - 12:02 PM, said:

As others have stated, they 'nerfed' the LPL in order to bring them all into line with one another.

Ostensibly, this means that they wanted to get a baseline and collect metrics on how the lasers work in actual gameplay (rather than relying on simple math and assuming no other variables), in order to use that information to get them balanced amongst each other and versus the regular lasers.

I'm no game designer or balancer, but I see the point. PGI doesn't care about the short term rammifications and tears that come from it - they have a plan they're trying to execute, so I leave them to it.


All told, it seems to make sense to me.

It's just a totally pointless change. Anyone who's ever used PPC, LL and the LPL for a while can tell the LPL wasn't worth it. But instead they needed to collect data on it when it's even worse. Makes absolutely zero sense whatsoever. If they're going to change it then do the changes and collect data on how it'll actually work. Data for data's sake is pointless.

Edited by armyof1, 04 July 2013 - 12:09 PM.

[Deathlike]

TOGSolid, on 04 July 2013 - 12:07 PM, said:

The real question is why were Pulses normalized based on the MPLs stats? MPLs are only slightly less useless than SPLs. If Pulses had been normalized based on the LPL, which was actually a solid weapon, then we theoretically should have ended up with three great guns.

MPL is so underpowered... and it went unchanged. SPL is still somewhat underpowered (it still seems bad vs regular med lasers).

I dunno... balancing based on the LPL would've probably worked a tad better, but I'd have to check Paul's math first.

[Victor Morson]

Tarrasque, on 04 July 2013 - 12:02 PM, said:

I'm no game designer or balancer, but I see the point. PGI doesn't care about the short term rammifications and tears that come from it - they have a plan they're trying to execute, so I leave them to it.

Oh really?

http://mwomercs.com/...st/page__st__40

Victor Morson, on 01 July 2013 - 09:09 PM, said:

Some mood music...



... slow & deliberate? Let's look at how they've handled everything.

LRMs
Massively overpowered
Massively overpowered, completely stopped AMS, making it a wash
Completely underpowered
Completely overpowered
Just needing a small speed buff...
Gutted to 0.7.. Depressingly underpowered
Massively over buffed
Underbuffed, needing a small damage buff

Pulse Lasers
Completely too hot and not worth using
Completely too cool and better than everything
Damage buffed with heat, making them unusable
Heat reduced, making them too good
Head reintroduced, making them too bad
"Normalization" that undid everything back to 0, only fixing the SPL and none of the others.

PPCs
Horrendously underpowered
Moderately useful
Even worse
KING OF THE WORLD
.
.
.
KING OF THE WORLD

ER Large Laser
Heat and duration is way too high
Duration and heat are brought down but not enough
Heat continues to go up and down
Goto Start: Heat and duration is way too high

SRMs
Really useful
Flight path makes using them way harder, still useful
Really useful
Damage dropped, total crap
HSR and Pattern changes, still underpowered

... but I could keep going with weapons. Let's go to Equipment!

ECM
ECM hard locks all missiles, killing LRM and Streak boats and forcing ECM on everyone
ECM gets TAG weakness
ECM gets BAP weakness
ECM is now pretty much sub-par, hard-locking systems in very specific scenarios instead of providing a moderate benefit more of the time

Artillery Strikes & Airstrikes
Enter the game with the promise of "making lights run off points." Turns out to be a 2 damage grenade you can teleport and some recycled graphics. All the upgrades make them impossible to hit with.
.
.
We got slightly more damage, I guess.

NARC
NARC is introduced too heavy, too hard to hit with, and too ammo dependent.
.
.
NARC loses ability to work with Artemis, the thing every missile boat has.

..... I'm just getting tired at this point. Methodical and careful, for sure!

Edited by Victor Morson, 04 July 2013 - 12:23 PM.

[TOGSolid]

Deathlike, on 04 July 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

MPL is so underpowered... and it went unchanged. SPL is still somewhat underpowered (it still seems bad vs regular med lasers).

I dunno... balancing based on the LPL would've probably worked a tad better, but I'd have to check Paul's math first.

Yeah, I'm posting from a phone during my lunch break otherwise I would have crunched the numbers already.

[WolvesX]

Just twitterd the thread to Paul, I made a twitter account for it! =)

[Victor Morson]

WolvesX, on 04 July 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

Just twitterd the thread to Paul, I made a twitter account for it! =)

Feel free to tweet my flashback thread too, to remind them just how far we've come since closed beta and what a good idea it was to ignore the competitive community entirely. Link in my sig!

Edited by Victor Morson, 04 July 2013 - 12:24 PM.

[Trev Firestorm]

Victor Morson, on 04 July 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

increased damage massively per shot

The damage per shot never changed on ppcs
Edit: unless you're referring to the changes to the wierd/broken splash damage they were doing...

Edited by Trev Firestorm, 04 July 2013 - 12:27 PM.

[Tarrasque]

armyof1, on 04 July 2013 - 12:09 PM, said:

It's just a totally pointless change. Anyone who's ever used PPC, LL and the LPL for a while can tell the LPL wasn't worth it. But instead they needed to collect data on it when it's even worse. Makes absolutely zero sense whatsoever. If they're going to change it then do the changes and collect data on how it'll actually work. Data for data's sake is pointless.

Yeah, because I'm sure that an overhaul of any/all pulse lasers to different values that would really effect them would have been received FANTASTICALLY... Maybe they're trying to do things a little less like a massive pendulum swing (like most people have asked), but I guess you can never please anyone in these parts.