26 replies to this topic

[Steel Claws]

I think it was fine to slow mechs down some when going up grades but this is unacceptable. Alpine and Canyon are almost impossible to get around on. Jump jets help a little but not enough. There are far too many places you can no longer go to on quite a few maps. It serves no real purpose other than to limit movement on the maps. This has taken a great deal of the fun that was left in this game for me out of it. Either the maps need adjusted or the movement needs tweaked pretty heavily back the way it was.

[NRP]

I agree with everything you said.

[Mad Dog Morgan]

Level design is supposed to direct the players, but yes, there need to be more ramps in the canyon and alpine has very restrictive routes that limit cover pathways.

[Dremnon]

It's not limited to just these two maps, almost ever map has areas now that were once easily accessible, and now you just can't reach them. Unless I've missed something, the criteria that PGI has come up with to limit movement up slopes is based on angle in terms of how your speed decreases (20 to 45 degrees) or if you stop (greater than 45), but there is no way of knowing what the angle is you're travelling on, so you could go from a 45 to 50 and stop dead, and worst yet the graphics really don't show a small change like that on a map. It's like mounting a weapon and not showing the cross hairs, and then that weapons is moving around all over the place and you're expected to hit something. If you're going to use a criteria to limit movement, you need to have an angle indicator on the HUD, but I think in terms of gameplay and map utilization, this is a big step backwards.

[Steel Claws]

The funny part is that by this logic you should go faster down hill - and I don't think you do. Unless you fall down a hill that is.

Edited by Steel Claws, 02 July 2013 - 09:04 PM.

[Kiiyor]

This was a pretty humongous change to the game mechanics - the current maps have been designed around a now outdated movement system. I think the devs will likely be very interested in feedback, but will probably only really read what's in the official feedback thread.

The system definitely needs tweaking, and I believe PGI will be very aware of this. Let's hope that any changes that need to be made (ESPECIALLY map changes) make it in before launch.

[Hauser]

Actually. It was mentioned on NGNG podcast that the maps were designed with the new movement system in mind. Alpine and Canyon were prime examples of this.

[Attackgypsy]

Movement is HORRID right now. Tired of getting stuck on a ROCK! Not a hill that I can't climb, but a bloody ROCK! Its nearly unplayable now.

[Ioun]

Yes, I'm going to have to agree on this one, as of right now canyon is basically unplayable, either you are lucky enough to be on the team that can get high or get too a place to get high first too snipe of the trapped mech's below or you lose, horribly imbalanced map, alpine peaks - well if you thought it was slow before its like a slow snipe/slugfest now.

I'm thinking you went just a little far on the slowdown/impossibility scale of inclines....

[Viper69]

How would a mech physically climb a surface greater than 45deg? Unless it had hands to lean forward and pull itself along it is physically impossible. Now the degree is an arbitrary number but they had to cut it off somewhere I imagine. However in TT any slop coluld be climbed at a drastic movement penalty but I cant remember a slope that was impassable unless it had more slope up than the mech had movement forward.

Someone draw me a diagram how you imagine a mech using only legs would climb steep terrain, plain terrain without rocks or anything. Show me this without the joints being hyper extended or clipping and or the mechs knees in its chest.

I give the devs **** often but damn these arent tracked vehicles, they are bipedal and do rely on traction on a relatively low surface area.

[Braggart]

It takes more than 1 day to see how this will all play out.

As it stands, you simply have to relearn the maps, and I know for a fact, that none of you could have done that in 1 day alone.

It will take time, lots because we are already so accustomed to the maps being how they were. Now any change to that, people immediately say !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!THIS SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

Give it time before you come crying. I'm not saying it cant be a legitimate complaint, but 1 day is not enough time for a meta to develop. The entire map dynamic has changed, and people have to adjust before we can truly see anything.

[hammerreborn]

Braggart, on 03 July 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

It takes more than 1 day to see how this will all play out.

As it stands, you simply have to relearn the maps, and I know for a fact, that none of you could have done that in 1 day alone.

It will take time, lots because we are already so accustomed to the maps being how they were. Now any change to that, people immediately say !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!THIS SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

Give it time before you come crying. I'm not saying it cant be a legitimate complaint, but 1 day is not enough time for a meta to develop. The entire map dynamic has changed, and people have to adjust before we can truly see anything.

Well to be fair, there are some issues outside of how the maps funnel you now. Third would actually help a lot with navigation through some places to see whats catching.

For instance, the twin towers for lack of a better term in upper city can "catch" light mechs running through it. I've made spiders have a really bad day by chasing them through it, even though it doesn't look like they are touching anything, they just...stop. There's also some collision with the railings near the broken ramp up to upper city that you can be "caught" on and watch your speed drop to 0.

JJs also need a hefty foward thrust to prevent them from getting trapped on some mountains in Alpine due to hover jets not giving enough lift to actually clear a small hill so once you start your hillhumping you slow to 0, stop, and can only jump vertically from there.

[oldradagast]

I've already posted in the official thread, but the more grumbling, the better.

This change makes the game worse, period.

Now, don't get me wrong - mechs shouldn't be climbing 80-degree slopes as seen on Alpine, but the current setup turns mechs into many-ton bowling balls that ROLL around vs. WALKING. The fact that a rock no higher than my Atlas's foot can stop it cold is nuts. The mech should be able to walk over that by lifting its feet, but the current setup only checks the slope angle, meaning the mech is basically stopped like a giant ball. It makes about as much sense as a human being unable to step over a phone book on the ground or climb a set of stairs because of the angle of intersection with the ground.

The end result is frustration. You have no idea if the terrain ahead will slow you to a crawl or stop you cold. Sure, some spots are obviously "no go," but many are not as obvious, and now instead of just watching for enemy mechs, you have to keep an eye open for little rocks and crystals that will drop your speed to nothing in the middle of the fight.

This setup heavily favors snipers and anyone who doesn't move, as does the vast restriction in open areas on the map where mechs can roll - I mean "walk" - if they want to close the distance. Do we really need something else that favors snipers?

Finally, getting stuck on terrain is a hallmark of sloppy programming, even if it was the "design intent." Stuff like this will turn away a new player since they'll just assume the game is riddled with movement flaws.

[Superslicks]

Canyon network is impossible to navigate using my stalker, I'm getting stuck on the smallest inclines, I also get stuck on the smallest boulders, I now quit canyon network when using large mechs, because its just impossible to navigate

[hammerreborn]

Superslicks, on 03 July 2013 - 08:35 AM, said:

Canyon network is impossible to navigate using my stalker, I'm getting stuck on the smallest inclines, I also get stuck on the smallest boulders, I now quit canyon network when using large mechs, because its just impossible to navigate

The worlds smallest violin, i play it for thee!

[Sam Slade]

take scout... insert jump jets... use...

[oldradagast]

Thontor, on 03 July 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

The maps were all designed with these limitations in mind. They are now being played as intended, get used to it.

I don't buy that for a moment. Mechs are meant to get stuck at the top of hills and snagged on rocks the size of their feet? We're supposed to spend more time carefully navigating the maps, fearful of sudden speed drops and snags, then we spend actually looking for the enemy? We're supposed to be limited to about half of each map without jump jets? "Working as intended?" I doubt it, IMHO.

Again, mechs are NOT many-ton bowling balls, yet that is exactly how this "improvement" is playing out, with mechs basically rolling around the maps, getting stuck on the smallest of things. May as well all roll downhill and fight at the lowest point - or stay in one spot and fire a million PPC's at the targets - who are probably snagged on a pebble.

Edited by oldradagast, 03 July 2013 - 10:35 AM.

[Steel Claws]

Viper69, on 03 July 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

How would a mech physically climb a surface greater than 45deg? Unless it had hands to lean forward and pull itself along it is physically impossible. Now the degree is an arbitrary number but they had to cut it off somewhere I imagine. However in TT any slop coluld be climbed at a drastic movement penalty but I cant remember a slope that was impassable unless it had more slope up than the mech had movement forward.

Someone draw me a diagram how you imagine a mech using only legs would climb steep terrain, plain terrain without rocks or anything. Show me this without the joints being hyper extended or clipping and or the mechs knees in its chest.

I give the devs **** often but damn these arent tracked vehicles, they are bipedal and do rely on traction on a relatively low surface area.

The same way people do it perhaps....... Yes it slows us down, but it doesn't stop us.

[Steel Claws]

Thontor, on 03 July 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

The maps were all designed with these limitations in mind. They are now being played as intended, get used to it.

We were told that were there was snow we could go - this is not the case so I'd say not as intended. Sorry I play games to be entertained and have fun - to escape from reality for a while. Getting stuck on rocks and pot holes is not my idea of fun. Sure it's perhaps a little bit realistic but only in a modest way. The more you try to nerf this game out the more people will quit playing. It makes me sick to think of what this game could be and what it has become. This is not real life, this is not table top. If you want table top, go play it. More than 75% of my group refuse to play this game any more because it has become such a dumbed down game and they don't like the direction it's headed. Most have uninstalled. Our money isn't going here anymore, most have dropped serious cash on Star Citizen. Forum heros like you keep pushing the game in directions that most of us don't want it to go. Weren't you one of the ones that kept begging for a PPC boost?

Edited by Steel Claws, 03 July 2013 - 02:26 PM.

[Raging Owlbear]

I don't have a problem with making some areas of a map inaccessible, or harder to access to make the game more strategic, but I think the movement code needs more adjustments

There are a couple of instances that I encountered slopes that should have been passable, but were not.

The most obvious examples are in Cayon. I was walking in the river (in a Catapult) and could not get up the river bank by Kappa.The BANK... not one of the canyon sides, but the tiny little river bank. It was ridiculous that a 3-story mech could not step up a little 5' embankment. These kinds of issues need to be fixed. A mech should be able to "step up" a certain amount.

Additionally, in the River City there is the bridge that travels from Sigma (drop ship area) toward Kappa. Beneath that bridge is a path up the side of the river canyon. This is a path that is clearly intended to allow traversal up from the river to the right side of the bridge into the city. The textures seem to indicate this should be a walkable path. This path that was easily traversed is now impassible to large mechs.

There were several other instances I encountered (like getting caught on a building area in River City that should have let me walk up on or by) but I didn't note every single one. In my next set of games, I will try to take more screen shots of these areas, but the devs should be able to walk around the maps and see for themselves where these "impassible" areas should not be.