23 replies to this topic

[Valore]

ELO is there so we play with people our skill level.

Why? Because that's the best way PGI could come up with so players of lesser skill don't feel like they're being crushed without being given a chance to learn. You don't learn much when you walk out and take PPCs/NoobKill LRMs to the face.

However, perhaps the problem is worth examining in greater detail.


Is the problem really that noobs get crushed?

Or is it because they get crushed in a way that does not allow them to learn, and is also remarkably not fun?

Would it be then worth considering that if we removed ELO, so noobs had to fight these same pros that were beating them, BUT everyone was in stock mechs, so noobs would likely at least get a fight in, they may still have fun?

The proposal:

If you run a stock mech, your ELO does not apply, only weight matching. You are only matched against others in stock mechs, or basic/noob ELO.

Anticipated result:

More people run stock mechs, instead of min/maxed builds. We get messier, but more 'fun' games, for pro and noob alike. ELO is dubious at the best of times anyway, so it'd be difficult for this proposed change to make things worse.

Disclosure:

I enjoy min/max, PPC Stalker/Poptart Online as much as the next person. But honestly speaking I play plenty of that in serious 8v8 competition. I'd like to have something different/fun to play when I'm actually looking to relax.

Edited by Valore, 04 July 2013 - 06:49 PM.

[Gen Kumon]

In the very least, they need to expedite lobbies and provide a stock-only option for them.

[Keisuke Nagisa]

I like this idea mainly because I like running stock builds and find them fun sometimes.

[Ph30nix]

stock wouldnt be so bad with a better heat system. while i have ZERO problem with boats i do agree that a lower heat cap but higher disipation would go along way to helping even things out.

[Ningyo]

I've been pushing this for weeks for the same reason, many players will find it fun, and newbies will have a more level playing field.

Also they could implement a stock mode with under 1 hour of programming:
Add mode option to menu that only shows up if a stock/trial mech is selected (to check if mech is stock you can just compare loadout with stock and if same it is, EASY)
If option is selected only match player with other players using this option.
Celebrate (I could be wrong this part may extend the hour)

And even after things like CW are in, having a stock mode will still be a good thing for new players, and other players that just bought a new mech and want to play around with it before Min/Maxing. And of course make all those battletech purists a little happier.


Oh and my only really hesitance with this idea comes in the form of do you allow champion and hero mechs as stock? since they tend to have massively better stock loadout.

Edited by Ningyo, 04 July 2013 - 11:41 PM.

[PEEFsmash]

Elo is working fine, we just need more players. Having a stock mech whatever the heck this is won't change anything whatsoever. If people wanted to play stock mechs they would be doing it now.

Not to menion, there are a few stock mechs that are actually quite good, whereas most are terrible. Those few good stock mechs would dominate whatever the heck this group of stock mechs+bads bracket is.

[Unbound Inferno]

PEEFsmash, on 04 July 2013 - 11:43 PM, said:

Elo is working fine, we just need more players. Having a stock mech whatever the heck this is won't change anything whatsoever. If people wanted to play stock mechs they would be doing it now.

Not to menion, there are a few stock mechs that are actually quite good, whereas most are terrible. Those few good stock mechs would dominate whatever the heck this group of stock mechs+bads bracket is.

ELO is not working fine, not when it matches someone who's played nearly 2,000 matches with a few really new players because the system says its the turn to loose.

Face it PEEF, its not working. New players should not be stuck trying to learn in a game match that tells them they loose cause the system said so.

Its fine for competitive play, but not for new and I'm stick of it when I try to enjoy it casually.

[Victor Morson]

Take LRMs off your poll and I'll sign.

[Sporklift]

Another possibility would be to double (or triple) the number of trial mechs available at any one time, give them a separate matchmaking que with the basic game types we have now, and quit calling them trial mechs.

No CW, no contests, none of the potential future game modes, no modules, or efficiencies. They gain Cbills and exp all the same but will eventually want to do something with all the money. Everyone will be piloting the basic stuff most of which can't insta-kill a light. Battles will probably be chaotic and unpredictable.

Sounds rather attractive for an introduction to the game.

[CravenMadness]

Love the use of 'NoobKill' when put in front of lrms, but not ppcs... Little bit of bias there? Lets not get confused, frankly it is the -ppc- that is putting people off. Nobody but the folks who think ppcs are 'working as intended' think that lrms are 'noobkilleasymode'.

Other than that, a 'stock league' would be fun in its own right. But hard point restrictions would go a lot further towards making the game more varied. Even if the hard point restrictions could be gotten around by paying huge amounts of c-bills to change what was originally a machine gun mount for an ac/20 mount. And any time you want to change that ac/20 out you have to pay -again- to shut down a mech factory and re-tool machinery to swap out a part on -your- individual mech.

You start with a machine gun in that slot? Likely only going to be able to go up to an ac/5 with the parts you're using. Starts with an ac/10 and sure you can up it to an ac/20 or even two ac/5s or ultras. ... You start with a medium energy weapon in slot, you can up it to pulse or larges, but if you want what is essentially a railgun firing MechScienceMagic energy balls (instead of magnetized scrap metal which is what the gauss is), you need to rip out the old parts and completely customize the mounts which should cost -big time style-, which should -cost c-bills- every time you change it out.

[Valore]

CravenMadness, on 05 July 2013 - 04:46 AM, said:

Love the use of 'NoobKill' when put in front of lrms, but not ppcs... Little bit of bias there? Lets not get confused, frankly it is the -ppc- that is putting people off. Nobody but the folks who think ppcs are 'working as intended' think that lrms are 'noobkilleasymode'.

Victor Morson, on 05 July 2013 - 01:12 AM, said:

Take LRMs off your poll and I'll sign.

Its because LRMs do kill noobs. Most experienced players can easily avoid LRMs. PPCs kill everyone, but its even worse when you're new and all you see are blue flashes, then you die.

[CravenMadness]

Ahh... So that wasn't some subtle slant that lrms are 'skill-less', pardon then. But honestly, it isn't the missiles either way. It still usually takes about three volleys from a pair of dedicated missile launchers to do significant damage (that's six launches combined, usually lrm 30.. so about 180 missiles have to be launched and actually hit) where as, a new player wandering around for the cadet matches (first 25) probably won't have any clue about line of sight for maps yet and will get blasted in a single volley from shoulder to shoulder ppc users waiting for a target to twitch fire on. ... and that's where the flashing blue before death comes from.

[MustrumRidcully]

I don't think this would help, because not all stock mechs are equally bad or good, and skilled players will pickt he better ones, and be better able to deal with their shortcomings.

If the matchmaker needs anything, it is that he shouldn't mix players of vastly differing skill levels. A low player and a high player shouldn't balance out two moderate player on the opposing team.

[Ragnar Darkmane]

MustrumRidcully, on 05 July 2013 - 04:56 AM, said:

If the matchmaker needs anything, it is that he shouldn't mix players of vastly differing skill levels. A low player and a high player shouldn't balance out two moderate player on the opposing team.

This.

[General Taskeen]

MustrumRidcully, on 05 July 2013 - 04:56 AM, said:

I don't think this would help, because not all stock mechs are equally bad or good, and skilled players will pickt he better ones, and be better able to deal with their shortcomings.

Which in hindsight, is a shortcoming of game balance itself.

My idea is to have most game modes like CW and what we have to be relegated to limited customization, while what we have now, as far as full customization, should be moved to a Solaris Mode only. It would make more sense to me, because basically what we have right now is Solaris Matches except with Teams. We don't need to pretend anymore, as we have Mechs that can cut out their small engine and put in a huge one, install a vast array of weaponry, etc.

PEEFsmash, on 04 July 2013 - 11:43 PM, said:

Elo is working fine, we just need more players. Having a stock mech whatever the heck this is won't change anything whatsoever. If people wanted to play stock mechs they would be doing it now.

Not to menion, there are a few stock mechs that are actually quite good, whereas most are terrible. Those few good stock mechs would dominate whatever the heck this group of stock mechs+bads bracket is.

My assumption is going to start with you probably don't like playing stock Mechs or anything close to them, judging from your other posts when 'elite' gameplay is mentioned. This is a product of Mechlab-empethamine, potent drug.

Edited by General Taskeen, 05 July 2013 - 05:05 AM.

[Cybermech]

I do like the concept of it, not a fan in removing ELO.
It would bring more lolz moments then not however there would have to be some fine tuning of the armor on lights and mediums.
They can be so low, its just funny when you see a trial light running around. (doesn't take long to get legged)

[soarra]

PEEFsmash, on 04 July 2013 - 11:43 PM, said:

Elo is working fine, we just need more players. Having a stock mech whatever the heck this is won't change anything whatsoever. If people wanted to play stock mechs they would be doing it now.

Not to menion, there are a few stock mechs that are actually quite good, whereas most are terrible. Those few good stock mechs would dominate whatever the heck this group of stock mechs+bads bracket is.

a lot of us would love a stock mech match. No stupid boating and would be a lot of fun.

[Randalf Yorgen]

CravenMadness, on 05 July 2013 - 04:46 AM, said:

Love the use of 'NoobKill' when put in front of lrms, but not ppcs... Little bit of bias there? Lets not get confused, frankly it is the -ppc- that is putting people off. Nobody but the folks who think ppcs are 'working as intended' think that lrms are 'noobkilleasymode'.

Other than that, a 'stock league' would be fun in its own right. But hard point restrictions would go a lot further towards making the game more varied. Even if the hard point restrictions could be gotten around by paying huge amounts of c-bills to change what was originally a machine gun mount for an ac/20 mount. And any time you want to change that ac/20 out you have to pay -again- to shut down a mech factory and re-tool machinery to swap out a part on -your- individual mech.

You start with a machine gun in that slot? Likely only going to be able to go up to an ac/5 with the parts you're using. Starts with an ac/10 and sure you can up it to an ac/20 or even two ac/5s or ultras. ... You start with a medium energy weapon in slot, you can up it to pulse or larges, but if you want what is essentially a railgun firing MechScienceMagic energy balls (instead of magnetized scrap metal which is what the gauss is), you need to rip out the old parts and completely customize the mounts which should cost -big time style-, which should -cost c-bills- every time you change it out.

^^ This, but make sure it all costs an insane amount. The cost of buying a new car that you see in the paper is just the factory cost now think about what it costs to full trick tha same car out, sometimes 3 or 4 times as much. Mechs, being military machines and who sell in bulk to units or governments would have a negotiated price. For the Lonewolf, the ability to buy direct from the factory is unheard of so you need to add a mark up to the cost, say 30%. Then if they want to customize it they would need a specialist with a private mech bay and all the tools and expertise so top dollar there. Then they have to find the parts they want to add, cost of shipping could be a real bit-ch if the part is 6 jumps away. Also Custom builds could cost more to repair as the little bits and pieces are not standard for that mech and the shop might have to open a kit that's for a different mech or custom build the parts themselves. There is the possibility for a lot of fun with this and a feeling of great satisfaction for all players when they can "Finally" get to upgrade their mech the way they want. It would cut down on the boating, promote stock use, give all players a challenge that they can "Shoot" for. It throws a bone to us old timers for immersion/realism and it levels the playing field. Great players who win all the time and have the money still get to have their prize and everyone else will have the same level of tech. Then it comes down to skill and ability over who can buy the shiniest mech.

[Deathlike]

MustrumRidcully, on 05 July 2013 - 04:56 AM, said:

I don't think this would help, because not all stock mechs are equally bad or good, and skilled players will pickt he better ones, and be better able to deal with their shortcomings.

If the matchmaker needs anything, it is that he shouldn't mix players of vastly differing skill levels. A low player and a high player shouldn't balance out two moderate player on the opposing team.

Well, it's hard to name a stock mech loadout that would one shot lights.

I agree with the MM assessment, but it doesn't hurt that OCCASIONALLY, a PUGging newbie is added to the a side to see what higher level play looks like. It simply cannot be a whole team of them though.

Stock mechs with good pilots will still be better than any trial mech on the shelf.. the difference though is the time to kill won't be as drastically quick or instant.. unless the 3 PPC Awesome somehow dominates the scene..

At this point, a somewhat leveled playing field can't hurt improving on the newbie queue with vets in stock mechs.

I will still hate on stock, but I recognize that these options won't split the community further... rather it would foster better community relationships.

[Balsover]

I would love a stock mech only mode, would be way more fun then what we have now. Its what I really miss from Multiplayer Battletech 3025, well that and the awesome Inner Sphere map conquest.