26 replies to this topic

[Kanatta Jing]

So I've started leveling the Blackjack series. I've started with the bj-1 and bj-1x.

There are a lot of issues with the Blackjack. There are things that it simply cannot do.

Fighting with light mechs is a biggy. The stubby arms prevent it from effectivly engaging them. It needs bigger slower targets.

And on the note of bigger and slower targets, it cannot engage many those in a direct fashion. It cannot brawl against brawlers.

So what can the Blackjack do? It must do the other things. It must use it's mobility to flank. To seek access to the enemies back lines. It must prey upon vulnerable but guarded LRM boats and jump snipers and force them into the open. It must engage heavy brawlers that are themselves already engaged and unable to defend themselves.

Without the strength to kill on it's own, it is firmly a seaker of carrion on the field.

This is unfortunate as this role is already taken more effectivly by light mechs and the Cicada which already benefit from much superior mobility granting them a much wider range of battle field roles.

[KrazedOmega]

One thing I learned from the BJ-1 and BJ-3 is that your JJ's should be in constant use. When you turn, especially if you're in combat, never just turn your legs. A quick burst of your JJ's and you'll be facing the opposite direction. It makes up for the lack of torso twist range and the fixed arms.

Hills and other cover are to be taken advantage of also. Run up a hill perpendicular to where your target is, hit the JJ's when you're about a quarter of the way up, take your shot and fall back to the ground under cover.

I probably look like a Tasmanian Devil when I'm piloting my BJ's. Constantly surrounded by a cloud of dust.

[Johnny Reb]

It is a support mech! So support by hanging close till the enemy is weak then attack and kill fast!

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2bd3b4846c34197

My fav so far but im mastered.

Edit: and happy with it for now!

Edited by Johnny Reb, 26 May 2013 - 01:00 AM.

[JackPoint]

Mastered all 4 sold them to an Arab wanting a garden sculpture.

[Teshtube]

Ive had consistently good matches with the BJ-1 loaded with a Gauss Rifle and 2 Mlas, now this may sound like a gimmicky build i managed to get the max XL engine size (i believe its 235) and even near maxed out armor, 4 tons of ammo is all i need usually, (though in longer matches i have run out) so that's 94kph (after speed tweak) with JJ and a Gauss Rifle,
is amazing at getting behind the team and pegging their back armor, and best of all you can harass like bloody crazy, and no one seems to expect you to hit as hard as you do
you can harass even kite assaults around in maps with cover like frozen city, and on the bigger maps like alpine you can draw fire or just hit them from the side as they try to push up,
should you get in a brawl, because Gauss is on your arm, you can be constantly Jump jetting over them and shooting it down at them, and that is SO much fun haha
i rarely do less then 300 damage (unless i lose my gauss instantly lol) and most games i do 400 + with 2 - 3 kills and 4 - 6 assists,

mind you i love ballistics and seem to have good aim with them which you need for this build

Edited by Set Tesh, 26 May 2013 - 03:03 PM.

[Skyfaller]

BJ1

XL195
Full Armor
Endo Steel
Dual Heatsinks
1 UAC5
4 tons ammo
1 large laser
3 medium lasers
11 DHS
4 jumpjets

Put the UAC5 and large laser in separate arms.
med lasers in remaining slots.

Even if the top speed is 77kph this 'Jack has the firepower of a heavy mech with the speedyness and turn rate of a medium.

Its very versatile and extremely good at close range jump-over-their-head combat.

Edited by Skyfaller, 26 May 2013 - 05:30 PM.

[Kasiagora]

Long range kite! Oh wait, it's slow.

I agree with KrazedOmega on the jump jet turning. This was a strategy I used on my Trebuchet to get behind heavier mechs –running toward them and jumping over while turning fo land behind them facing their rear– and on the Blackjack it's required to stand any chance of surviving a fight against a light mech. They made the top speed too low, the range of torso twist too narrow, and turning speed too laborious for a mech of its weight-class.

That being said, it is supposed to be a support mech for a light/medium lance in canon, and the tactics Kanatta Jing suggest are all sound and work well, and I'll never support being a pop-tart for more than one or two salvos in a match.

[LordBraxton]

the only build that brings anything to the table is the 8mlas Bj1x

8 Mlas running at 110kph can be defined as useful

the other variants?
they offer NOTHING a trebuchet cannot do MUCH MUCH better

the trebuchet's missile (AKA SSRM) hardpoints make it a much better harasser\support medium

and the treb makes for better jump sniper builds as well

I was hoping the blackjack would have a tiny profile

but as usual it is vastly oversized and therefore useless

[Lord Perversor]

Fell in lovw with the BJ you need a special mindset mixture of light pilot (move fast don't stop and surround the enemy to gain their backs unnoticed) and firesupport mech (you need to know when to stay and prepare the right shoot to help your teammates)

Right now i'm ending the master in the BJ-1, BJ-1DC and BJ-1X (at the end i will probable keep the 1 and 3 since JJ gives a lot of utilty and efficiency )

i mostly use 225 XL with different builds and all they work if used properly. but if curious.

BJ-1 ac/20 3x med lasers and 3x JJ
BJ-1DC 2x ac/2 with 450 shoots and 6x small lasers (ppl may laugh at this but some ppl has suffered this spam monstruosity and it's common to get around 300 ish dmg per match)
BJ-1X 8 mediumlasers? meh get a 275 XL and 6x Medpulse and cram as many HS as possible then get some laughs with it (you can fit 8x medpulse but the heat it's too much)

in the end i'll keep the 1 and 3 since i can pretty much dupliate any 1X and 1DC build with slight changes into them while keeping the JJ.

[Spheroid]

LordBraxton, on 27 May 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

the only build that brings anything to the table is the 8mlas Bj1x

8 Mlas running at 110kph can be defined as useful

the other variants?
they offer NOTHING a trebuchet cannot do MUCH MUCH better

the trebuchet's missile (AKA SSRM) hardpoints make it a much better harasser\support medium

and the treb makes for better jump sniper builds as well

I was hoping the blackjack would have a tiny profile

but as usual it is vastly oversized and therefore useless

I don't agree with that. I think the high mounted arms make the BJ a much better PPC platform. Also you consider the Blackjack a large target but not the enormous Trebuchet?

[LegoPirate]

the blackjack is an excellent sniper platform. its tough for other snipers to hit, and fast enough to avoid the brawlers. something like double erppc or triple ppc is pretty much the only thing this mech can mount better then other mediums due to a combo of jjs, weapon placement, and small size.

also, the blackjack is the same size as a cicada. its actually really tough to hit one at range.

[Johnny Reb]

Lord Perversor, on 27 May 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

Fell in lovw with the BJ you need a special mindset mixture of light pilot (move fast don't stop and surround the enemy to gain their backs unnoticed) and firesupport mech (you need to know when to stay and prepare the right shoot to help your teammates)

Right now i'm ending the master in the BJ-1, BJ-1DC and BJ-1X (at the end i will probable keep the 1 and 3 since JJ gives a lot of utilty and efficiency )

i mostly use 225 XL with different builds and all they work if used properly. but if curious.

BJ-1 ac/20 3x med lasers and 3x JJ
BJ-1DC 2x ac/2 with 450 shoots and 6x small lasers (ppl may laugh at this but some ppl has suffered this spam monstruosity and it's common to get around 300 ish dmg per match)
BJ-1X 8 mediumlasers? meh get a 275 XL and 6x Medpulse and cram as many HS as possible then get some laughs with it (you can fit 8x medpulse but the heat it's too much)

in the end i'll keep the 1 and 3 since i can pretty much dupliate any 1X and 1DC build with slight changes into them while keeping the JJ.

Speed is why I kept the 1x. However well stated.

[Roadbuster]

I bought the BJ-1, BJ-1X and BJ-3 and sold back the BJ-1X.
It might be the fastest but it also lacks the jumpjets making the Blackjack something special for me.
The Trebuchet may be able to jump too and load missiles, but most of the hardpoints are in the arms and are situated lower than on the Blackjack.
And everyone advertising a BJ-1X with 6-8ML makes me want to do something different. I tried it and other loadouts but didn't like it.

I get good results with a BJ-1 with a 210XL engine, 2ML, 2SL and 2 AC2 and with a BJ-3 with a 225STD engine, 2LL and 4ML.

[Johnny Reb]

Roadbuster, on 27 May 2013 - 10:46 PM, said:

I bought the BJ-1, BJ-1X and BJ-3 and sold back the BJ-1X.
It might be the fastest but it also lacks the jumpjets making the Blackjack something special for me.
The Trebuchet may be able to jump too and load missiles, but most of the hardpoints are in the arms and are situated lower than on the Blackjack.
And everyone advertising a BJ-1X with 6-8ML makes me want to do something different. I tried it and other loadouts but didn't like it.

I get good results with a BJ-1 with a 210XL engine, 2ML, 2SL and 2 AC2 and with a BJ-3 with a 225STD engine, 2LL and 4ML.

I liked the BJ-1, just the JJ were not enough to replace my Wang.

Edit: I also am about having at least one of each mech chassis mastered. So, I have the BJ-1x, Aws-9M, Spd-5D, ect...

Edited by Johnny Reb, 27 May 2013 - 10:59 PM.

[Jam the Bam]

I bought a 1x just out of curiosity and I don't think I've stopped playing with it since then, its awesome. Simple loadout of 2 ERPPC's at 106kph, it turns and responds well when its got some xp. Just hit and run, flank, snipe, and skirmish, so much fun and so simple. The tiny profile means you can poke just the guns out and take shots then relocate in no time.

I start the match taking potshots then later on I jump in and run circles round things.

My favourite tactic is running out directly in-front of Atlai then shooting and spinning back into cover, you can see the moment when they have to re-focus on the tiny mech under their guns, while you take 20 armour off their centre torso each time and run away.

Last game I got 650 damage, I struggle to do that in my heavies most matches. Just wondering about getting one of the slower JJ ones, though I think Ill miss the speed.

[Roadbuster]

Jammerben87, on 28 May 2013 - 04:40 AM, said:

Last game I got 650 damage, I struggle to do that in my heavies most matches. Just wondering about getting one of the slower JJ ones, though I think Ill miss the speed.

It's not that bad. Even with a "slow" 225 engine you go 81kph without speed buff.
The BJ speed goes up quite high even with small engines.
And even with all basics the torso twist angle of the BJ-1X is horrible for a fast mech. It's the same as the twist angle as an Atlas and only the Stalker is worse.
Higher agility is something you shouldn't underestimate.

Edited by Roadbuster, 28 May 2013 - 06:21 AM.

[Matroid]

the blackjack is different, somewhat odd to me in the Medium category:

Cicada - Scout (just like all of the light mechs)
Hunchback/Centurion - Brawler (hunch can shoot over hills, centurion has gorilla arms for defense)
Trebuchet - Sniper/Support


Blackjack Disadvantages
- slow and can't be a scout due to engine restrictions
- less tonnage than other mediums in the brawler/support category (HBK/CN9/TRB)
- less max armor


Blackjack Advantages
- jump jets for mobility & battlefield awareness
- more hard-points


with all of his hard-points and jump jetting, the best thing to do with him is make an alpha striker (think
Stalker but with half the weight: 8+ medium lasers) or pop-tarter for support (PPCs, Gauss). i really don't
like to advocate pop-parting, but there's not much else that can be done with this chassis that the other
mediums can't do better

[Deathlike]

For so much talk about the Trebuchet being better than the Blackjack, I haven't really seen many if any Trebuchets on the field that are overwhelmingly better than the BJ, other than speed and the ability to carry Streaks. Maybe it's just me, but the bucket isn't a great PPC boat where the BJ is a better platform for because of its arms.

If you cannot see how the BJ can benefit you, then go figure. Noone can convince you that the paper specs on a mech doesn't always translate into a good build for you...

Besides, the results of the last tourney seems to suggest that the bucket was on par with the Cicada (which, is kinda surprising for the bucket). This is not necessarily an indication of how bad the bucket is, but then again, the Awesome was the worst assault in the tourney before that (for obvious reasons)...

[Cest7]

I've found it pretty underwhelming.

Not enough tonnage to mount decent firepower, too slow for jumpjets to be of any use and poor heat efficiency with mediocre loadouts.

Overall, I'm very disappointed with the Blackjacks, debating selling the 2 that I own instead of buying a 3rd.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Set Tesh, on 26 May 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

Ive had consistently good matches with the BJ-1 loaded with a Gauss Rifle and 2 Mlas, now this may sound like a gimmicky build i managed to get the max XL engine size (i believe its 235) and even near maxed out armor, 4 tons of ammo is all i need usually, (though in longer matches i have run out) so that's 94kph (after speed tweak) with JJ and a Gauss Rifle,
is amazing at getting behind the team and pegging their back armor, and best of all you can harass like bloody crazy, and no one seems to expect you to hit as hard as you do
you can harass even kite assaults around in maps with cover like frozen city, and on the bigger maps like alpine you can draw fire or just hit them from the side as they try to push up,
should you get in a brawl, because Gauss is on your arm, you can be constantly Jump jetting over them and shooting it down at them, and that is SO much fun haha
i rarely do less then 300 damage (unless i lose my gauss instantly lol) and most games i do 400 + with 2 - 3 kills and 4 - 6 assists,

mind you i love ballistics and seem to have good aim with them which you need for this build

Thinking about doing the same thing but only with a AC/20.