42 replies to this topic

[Stoicblitzer]

FactorlanP, on 05 July 2013 - 05:51 PM, said:

I also remember the days of shooting targets, seeing the hit, but no damage registering.

those days are now though it happens less often than before hsr.

[Slashmckill]

PEEFsmash, on 05 July 2013 - 08:36 PM, said:

Check out Example#2, even more extreme.

http://www.twitch.tv...smash/c/2530268

Is this intended? The other stalker had 134 ping, and mine again was 21.

The first video was a little unclear since the timing was pretty close, the second video however showed quite clearly that HSR is working in full effect.

On your screen he was just turning to face you as you ran off, on his screen since he was lagging it returned you to your position a second before, he was most likely already aiming at you for a half second. He shot you on his screen which the server then updated this to your mech and thus you were shot in the ct. Visually it looks completely bs, but from the technical standpoint it simply calculated the interval he was lagging at and rewound your mech in a position you would be at on his screen if he wasn't lagging. (He can hit you though his crappy lag, but you can hit him before he can even see you)

It's a double edged sword of sorts, you could shoot him pretty much anywhere and it would take him a second to torso twist to spread the damage. On his end you would be rewound and therefore not be able to react to his fire in real time seeing as the server is merely playing back your actions you have already done up to that point. (You still have the advantage of making the first strike though since lag is merely compensated for and not removed.)

Edit: It's about 3am and i have no idea if this will make sense to anyone but me at this point, might clean it up a little after i get some damn sleep.

Edited by Slashmckill, 05 July 2013 - 11:41 PM.

[Ralgas]

classic example of how hsr benefits high and low pings from different places, you get the drop on that stalker in the vid as you came into contact and had you shot 1st either of those mech they would have been hit before knowing it, they get the advantage as you're running away around terrain.

That said, weapon animations also get terribly glitchy near terrain/building edges, same as shooting to near the side of a building can cause 15m in front of your mech convergence

[Nimura Nekogami]

working as intended.
(and glad about it XD)

I got an ping at 120-130 from Germany and wothout HSR it would be frustrating to line up shots. (still waiting for EU Servers......well....if they become populated XD)

Once a mate who died and spectated me, said i was aiming behind a Spider......i was confused because i aimed exactly on it. (we both have nearly the same Ping)
I asume if you switch in spectate mode you see the game with another ping value ? o.O

[Devil Fox]

HSR needs to seriously be fixed... hit a stopped spider 3 times with 2ERPPC +Guass... point blank, and not one registered. PGI really need to fix their code, because what's the point of HSR IF it doesn't work?

[GODzillaGSPB]

Yes, that is how HSR is supposed to work. Often you don't see the hit, you don't hear the hit, you don't feel the hit (screenshake), but you're hit. Wonderful, isn't it?

Apostal, on 06 July 2013 - 01:19 AM, said:

HSR needs to seriously be fixed... hit a stopped spider 3 times with 2ERPPC +Guass... point blank, and not one registered. PGI really need to fix their code, because what's the point of HSR IF it doesn't work?

That's the other extreme. You see the hit, you hear the hit, you missed. he server calculated a miss, but the visual component of the game runs on your computer. So either he of you got a ping too high for this to match.

It's far from an ideal solution of course. You could as well just fire blindly...

Edited by GODzillaGSPB, 06 July 2013 - 01:30 AM.

[ApolloKaras]

Working as intended. (no sarcasm) That's why they put this in. So on the Stalkers screen he hit you, without the HSR he would have hit you on his screen and not done any damage



EDIT: You okay Johnny?

Edited by Saxie, 06 July 2013 - 01:33 AM.

[Augustus Martelus II]

Or you have a freaking long *** antenna...lol

[dario03]

Its annoying but its typical for that to happen. But I swear it seems to only work some times or only for high ping players or something. I ping around 50 and I swear it seems like half the time my hits register on lights and half the time they don't. For a while it seemed to almost only happen with spiders but the other day I was playing a dual gauss cataphract and even though I would see hit after hit on my screen against jenners they almost never registered. Which was really annoying because when I take my Jenner out I see what you do and see people miss by a mech length or 2 and yet bam my CT will be gone. And its really annoying when you are up close to a assault and trying to read his movements so you can peck away at his armor without getting hit just to see your CT go red while he seems to be shooting at nothing. Had that happen a little while ago too, Was in a Jenner right up on a Atlas (like under 25m) and on my screen I thought I was perfectly safe and was just using burst movement and full stop to stay out of fire when I see him fire at a point that I hadn't even been in and was about 2 mech lengths away but yet I went from almost no damage to red instantly.

Oh and I checked out a couple of your smash bros videos (since Melee was my favorite but my only RL friend that plays doesn't want to switch back from Brawl). And word of advice, you need to calm down man, you're going to give yourself a anerism or heart attack or something.

Edited by dario03, 06 July 2013 - 01:42 AM.

[ApolloKaras]

I don't know if many of you are familiar with Battlefield 3, but I'll make that reference. They use client side hit detection. So on my screen I hit you, but on your screen you've already ran around the corner and you're behind the wall when you get hit lol.

[Nimura Nekogami]

BF3 is an awfull example. XD
HSR seems to be more realistic.

Not shure if HSR is causing hit-detection bugs or something else......but you also get the no-hit-bug with a higher ping.
Still remember the shutdown spider in front of me....hit him with 4 ml + gaus + srms (44 aplha).......he starts up....looked at me....hit me with an ml and walked away with no dmg taken. o.0

It could also an netcode issue or some hitbox glitches......or in the worst case....hitbox-glitches + netcode errors + failing HSR.

[JimboFBX]

One time I shot ahead of a light with a gauss and saw it sail in front of the mech. However, the mech fell over and died and I was awarded the kill. I've also seen it to be pretty consistent that people shoot behind mechs, and I always lead my shots, even at close range.

I think one possibility is that the game isn't 100% accurately taking into account the client position relative to the server position. The server will always think you're XX ms behind where you really are, so if everything is angular then what ends up happening is that your fire angle needs to be increased. I.E. the game thinks your shooting 90 ms behind where you think you're shooting.

One way to test this theory out is to see if HSR works very well while standing still but fudges up noticeably while you're moving.

[Hauser]

PEEFsmash, on 05 July 2013 - 05:53 PM, said:

My ping was 21 and his was either 40 or 70, depending on which Misery it was.

Assuming it was the 70 Misery, you have a 91 ms differential. You were standing still and going to full reverse when you saw him so assuming you moved at an average of 50kph, you were 1.3 meters in front of the position you were in when he shot. That's exactly on top of the outcrop you were trying hide behind.

It's reverse lag basically. Instead of having to aim a head of your target to hit them, you have to hide ahead of the people shooting at you.

Edited by Hauser, 06 July 2013 - 03:41 AM.

[Karenai]

Hauser, on 06 July 2013 - 03:39 AM, said:

Assuming it was the 70 Misery, you have a 91 ms differential. You were standing still and going to full reverse when you saw him so assuming you moved at an average of 50kph, you were 1.3 meters in front of the position you were in when he shot. That's exactly on top of the outcrop you were trying hide behind.

It's reverse lag basically. Instead of having to aim a head of your target to hit them, you have to hide ahead of the people shooting at you.

This exactly. It is the downside of HSR. He shot you while you were looking directly at him, but the shot registered while you were backpaddaling. Why do you stand still on the ridge with a scout and complain about beeing hit? Do not run up to the ridge stop and peak over, run past it and peak over while looking to the side.

[PanzerMagier]

Sounds like whine to me. Honestly I wish I could see my ac20 hit a spider's leg, watch sparks fly and see the reticle turn red again... Sigh

[Volts]

Yeah, you probably don't see it so often in your super high elo, because you guys CAN SEE INTO THE FUTURE AND READ WHERE THE SHELLS WILL LAND.

But the rest of us mortals have been dealing with this manfully for a while.

[Nimura Nekogami]

this issue hasnt anything to do with high or lowskill. o.0

and its good to see it on a vid to proove it.

there are some hitting-problem wich schould be taken with respect.......i dont care if its posted from an "low-skilled" pilot or "high-skilled" one.

sadly i think we cant recreat these bugs while playing. (maybe a testserver with costom game creation could work)
im still not shure if its only an HSR issue.

[FireSlade]

I have noticed on top of misses registering and hits not registering that the game (not sure if it is client or server) cannot figure out where the hit occurred. I have had the hit indicator show that I got hit in the back but the front took damage or one guy come up on my side shoot my arm and have the indicator show that but somehow the shot went through the arm, the ST then the CT and completely destroyed my other ST that had full armor and every section along the way took interior damage with armor on them. Started seeing the hit detection (hits hitting the wrong section of the mech) glitch after the missile HSR but the misses and hit glitch came right after the ballistic one (lasers seem to do less damage after that one too). I deal with it but it can be pretty annoying when running XL engines and the best survival technique of torso twisting does not work lol.

Edited by FireSlade, 06 July 2013 - 06:02 AM.

[Bloody Moon]

For all the people who brought up HSR, yes it can do something like this, however the current situation is that HSR barely works.
Sometimes it refuses to register shots at all, then it registers impossible shots.

We have played an in-house match with 2 Blazing Aces team where i killed a Jenner with a shot that missed by quite much both on his and my screen. If HSR would work as it should then the shot should've connected on my screen.

[Ralgas]

Bloody Moon, on 06 July 2013 - 06:01 AM, said:

For all the people who brought up HSR, yes it can do something like this, however the current situation is that HSR barely works.
Sometimes it refuses to register shots at all, then it registers impossible shots.

We have played an in-house match with 2 Blazing Aces team where i killed a Jenner with a shot that missed by quite much both on his and my screen. If HSR would work as it should then the shot should've connected on my screen.

Which is an example of unstable ping and it's effects on hsr, which for all intensive purposes gives "lagshield" back.

The packet load increase from 2 patches ago to fix some dc issues still isn't resolved fully (although the hotfix helped) and i'm unsure if it got sorted but there was a thread about net diagnostics showing some dodgy links very near the servers as far as the internet lines go (which could be caused by several issues and not necessarily what it appears).

These issues combined are creating wildly variable experiences with hit detection/hsr, and there are planned improvements (netcode and hsr upgrades to remove the need to calculate ping)

Edit: oh yeah op should also point out that although your ping may only be 10-30, if it's jumping around between the 2 a lot during matches this could also be what you're seeing, on top of my above post

Edited by Ralgas, 06 July 2013 - 06:19 AM.