268 replies to this topic

[Victor Morson]

You know, you can build a "Balanced Build" kind of 'mech that works well without gimping yourself or entering Franken territory. Popular 2nd string meta that run flexible designs like 3x LL 1x Gauss works great, esp. if the 'mech can throw some Streaks on there to give extra punch up close without impacting the build.

I'd call that well rounded (Light long range firepower, good medium and close range firepower) without being an all-over-the-map build.

The problems start when people start thinking balanced means an AC/5, 2 Mediums, 1 SRM2 1 LRM5 or crap like that. It's really amusing because honestly 'mechs like that sucked on Table Top really badly too, but it's often touted as the defense for it.

Le0yo, on 06 July 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

devs all ready said 2.0 is to strong for srms yes it seemed balanced in solo que but in team matches it was crazy games used to last a mere couple of minutes when it was like that. did you even read my post on balance? you are just mad about ppc in a state of cognitive dissonance.

They said there was a blast radius bug, not that 2.0 was too strong. Really they might need 2.5x to contend with the current meta.

[P e n u m b r a]

Legolaas, on 06 July 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

Assuming that anyone is mad because ..... is just cheap. Maybe its you cuz you dont likethem to be nerfed?

legolass I suggested nerfs to them as well as buffs to other weapons and mechanics so no I don't care. I figure you are mad because... you are missing allot of points being made and well anger = cognitive dissonance occurring, you do not think rationally and ignore important points being made that you may otherwise discuss rationally. so its either that or you appear to have a low IQ what do you want?

they said 2.0 was to high in the actual twitch chat last night..

Edited by Le0yo, 06 July 2013 - 01:06 PM.

[Mister Blastman]

Le0yo, on 06 July 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

devs all ready said 2.0 is to strong for srms yes it seemed balanced in solo que but in team matches it was crazy games used to last a mere couple of minutes when it was like that. did you even read my post on balance? you are just mad about ppc in a state of cognitive dissonance.

and blastman it was pin point in mw2 what the heck are you on about you aim you fire projectiles land at crosshair and deal damage to that that point same here?

http://www.youtube.c...ZhuyNnTA#t=202s

get your facts right...

I'm sure I have CONSIDERABLY more hours in the seat in both Mechwarrior 2 and 3 than you do. I can assure you with absolute confidence the convergence mechanics changed drastically between Mechwarrior 2: Mercenaries and Mechwarrior 3, among many other things.

The biggest was lasers doing instant damage versus being a projectile. Secondary to that was at range they spread out. Your video does nothing to highlight true competitive play.

At the absolute top of the game it was a sight to behold. Your video shows single player. Single player was a JOKE compared to how the game really played out online. There were many factors that went into it but in the end, lasers / ppcs did not converge in it like they did from MW 3 and beyond.

Please, before you post a video, know what YOU are talking about.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 06 July 2013 - 01:05 PM.

[FactorlanP]

Victor Morson, on 06 July 2013 - 01:00 PM, said:

They said there was a blast radius bug, not that 2.0 was too strong. Really they might need 2.5x to contend with the current meta.

If the SRM did 2.5 damage that was spread over a radius, that would be fine. If a missle hits center torso, it does 1.5 to the CT and 0.5 to the RT and 0.5 to the LT...

What we had was missiles that would do 2.5 damage to EVERY section in the blast radius, which obviously made for some seriously broken damage totals.

A missile should never exceed its own damage number.

Edited by FactorlanP, 06 July 2013 - 01:09 PM.

[Aaron45]

Le0yo, on 06 July 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

legolass I suggested nerfs to them as well as buffs to other weapons and mechanics so no I don't care. I figure you are mad because... you are missing allot of points being made and well anger = cognitive dissonance occurring, you do not think rationally and ignore important points being made that you may otherwise discuss rationally. so its either that or you appear to have a low IQ what do you want?

they said 2.0 was to high in the actual twitch chat last night..

the "balanced" build idea is such a rubbish fantasy. This is a team game and guess what? I dont know why this would come as a surprise. But the most effective tactical way to play is the same way any intelligent person would in real life its simply more efficient having designated role warfare.

I understand your words above as: high alpha ppc/gauss builds are just specialized snipers. You want to have role warfare on a pub match without voice comm and random ppl?

The important thing with the ppc gauss or only ppc builds is that they are too effective right now. I even dont care if theres the 9 medium lazer hunchback in front of me. It runs pretty hot. even the jenner (f) runs pretty hot. The ppc is just too effective dude. You can do pretty with it. Also do you think a pubbier cares much about the role warfare if he has to play with random ppl with whom he cant even effectiveley communicate (chat ofc but try to write when fighting)

I love balanced mechs with great heat efficiency and each sort of weapon(Missile ac and lazers) you dont have to use them idc.

[P e n u m b r a]

believe me i know what im talking about mechanic is pin point

https://www.youtube....INiR_E9Y#t=108s

when lasers land you deal pinpoint to that location.... they also spread out at at range on mwo if you shoot anything other than an assault moving at range...

I played mech 3 alot karaian empire beat the hell out of it again pin point small medium lasers the only thing that made you last so long was the crazy lag shooting however when you hit 90% of the damage from a laser boat hit a single part.

Edited by Le0yo, 06 July 2013 - 01:30 PM.

[P e n u m b r a]

in a pug game legolass if 8 players built their mechs with a role in mind and were randomly grouped up together it would still be a stronger combined group against a team that all built some fantasy book franken mech.

and im sick of repeating the fact i did suggest improving other weapons and nerfing travel time and adding more heat penalties if you find it more fun building some crazy mech and taking it into game then do so but speak for yourself.

[Stoicblitzer]

wish i could have been on the team stomping pgi. glad they could experience their game at the top level and get their faces ripped off. it's not about their skill. it's about them actually believing they could win with "fun" builds. well i hope they had "fun" with 0 kills in 6 matches. and to add insult to injury, this probably had no effect on their mentality whatsoever. they just experienced what new players and "just want to have fun" players are experiencing every ******* day for the past 3-4 months. do i want to be the guy running cheese and just demolishing these people? it hurts my soul to be ruining this game. they are forcing us to do this with their bs matchmaker and 2-months-from-launch economy.

oh and buy phoenix. **** off.

[SilentWolff]

Mister Blastman, on 06 July 2013 - 12:46 PM, said:

Mechwarrior 2 / Mechwarrior 2 Mercenaries DID NOT. The problems started with Mechwarrior 3.

Go from MW 2 to MW 3 and in 3 they operate the same as they do now. In 2, damage spread out. The online component was a million times more fun and back then it was only 2 - 3 people a team.

Its been along time since I played MW2 so, I'll conceed your point. But, it doesnt change the fact from MW3 on, lasers have been the counter to PPC's. And because MWO is following the same lines MW3/MW4, my point still stands as valid.

[Skunk Wolf]

All of this would have been avoided if they had left customization to pods when the clans drop. They could have had ten variants of each mech, and gave more mech bays.

They could have monetized the customization.

They still could, it's still beta.

I have the feeling that we're play testing the Clans because of the customization we are allowed.

[Homeless Bill]

Ahaha! Is this a serious request to insulate the developers from the reality of the game? Cheese is what I see every match. Even if it's only a single PPC Stalker, that ****** inevitably has a massive impact on the battle. They should be forced to drop against people that run cheese on a weekly basis.

I don't understand how anyone expects them to be able to balance a game they're not intimately familiar with. And the more time goes on, the more I see that they're clearly not.

[General Taskeen]

^the only thing really imbalanced about this game was the unlimited weapon placement, but most weapons and systems were balanced in their own right (2 or 4 MG's or Flamers for example were useful, LB-X guns had extreme range and did more damage, NARC could be used with SRMs, etc.).

[Corvus Antaka]

If PGI staff where super good at this game they'd spend more time playing it than making it and you'd all cry even harder.

[Mister Blastman]

SilentWolff, on 06 July 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

Its been along time since I played MW2 so, I'll conceed your point. But, it doesnt change the fact from MW3 on, lasers have been the counter to PPC's. And because MWO is following the same lines MW3/MW4, my point still stands as valid.

The rest is valid--since damage over time was implemented, it puts lasers at a disadvantage to PPCs.

The only way to fix the problem is to get rid of convergence entirely or make it fixed to a certain range as well as implementing real heat penalties. This will go a looooong way towards fixing this game.

It won't be perfect, though. The PPCs and ACs have pinpoint, 100% damage to a single location. For Autocannons, I can conceed this as a valid advantage given they have ammunition which will run out.

PPCs, on the other hand, could use some tweaking in things such as:

a. Damage spread to adjacent areas instead of all in one spot (i.e. splash damage) for a total of 10 pts of damage + EMP/heat/hud scramble/shake effects.
b. possibly variable spread depending on how hot a mech is upon firing
or
c. Turn them into a beam, similar to a laser in that damage is afflicted over time. However, I'd make it faster than lasers but this would still give them some spread (and allow the velocity to be kept the same or made faster).

PPCs were never an issue in Mechwarrior 3, online at least. They were a practical joke. If you took them you were looking to die to a UAC 20 boat or a erslas strider/shadowcat. They were an issue in single player. They were just as broken in the single player game as they are in Mechwarrior Online due to convergence. About the only thing that they had stopping them was huge amounts of heat, hud and targeting penalties when hot and the ability to nuke yourself.

I don't think lasers should be changed to 100% damage transfer upon hit. If we did that, we'd be back to Mechwarrior 4 again with their absurd large lasers.

[New Day]

Jabilo, on 06 July 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

Normally I would agree with the sentiments of this thread.

However, Paul has already made a post saying that he has been on holiday, that changes have ALREADY been made to remedy the situation and that they simply need to be added to a build and pushed through the QA procedure.

On this basis you could demonstrate some patience and not be quite so harsh.

And how long has this been going on.

[Pinselborste]

they should have done it like in MW:LL : drop TT stats and make some stats that are balanced for a realtime game, even clans where balanced in MWLL

[Hellen Wheels]

You all seem to be laboring under the false assumption that PGI and IGP somehow CARE whether this game is balanced, whether it adheres to BT (except to the extent it remains MINIMALLY VIABLE), and whether or not you or I think one thing or another.

The sooner you realize that only one thing matters to Zack and Russ and Paul and the other founding cronies of this clusterfark--($$$$)---the sooner you will come to be at peace with yourself for having been hoodwinked by their false promises.

They couldn't give a smaller rat's *** how they do in the games they have to play with the customers, and they don't give a **** about the MW franchise. They are laughing all the way to the bank, my friends. Enjoy the ride.

Edited by Hellen Wheels, 06 July 2013 - 04:01 PM.

[Roland]

Quote

You know, you can build a "Balanced Build" kind of 'mech that works well without gimping yourself or entering Franken territory.

Without doubt, although most folks who are running "balanced builds" are in reality just running a random assortment of garbage, akin to what you see on stock BT loadouts.

[jakucha]

I've run into plenty of PGI players randomly on non-streams, lots I've never even heard of too. They went from 10 hired people gradually up to the 40 they have now.

Hellen Wheels, on 06 July 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

You all seem to be laboring under the false assumption that PGI and IGP somehow CARE whether this game is balanced, whether it adheres to BT (except to the extent it remains MINIMALLY VIABLE), and whether or not you or I think one thing or another.

The sooner you realize that only one thing matters to Zack and Russ and Paul and the other founding cronies of this clusterfark--($$$$)---the sooner you will come to be at peace with yourself for having been hoodwinked by their false promises.

They couldn't give a smaller rat's *** how they do in the games they have to play with the customers, and they don't give a **** about the MW franchise. They are laughing all the way to the bank, my friends. Enjoy the ride.

You seem to be laboring under the false assumption that enlarging your angry conspiracy theory makes it true.

Edited by jakucha, 06 July 2013 - 04:24 PM.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

The part when one of them said something along the lines of "Yeah, Paul, you need to balance your game" should hit home pretty good.

Your own Dev team thinks its broken.