Lord of All, on 08 July 2013 - 06:16 AM, said:
No-one said it will "FIX" the game. There is no ONE action that will fix the game. Combining this with proper heat management should go a long way to creating a more realistic (sim) game as well as curbing most of the pinpoint alpha's.
I have no issue with a pinpoint alpha if the pilot has the time to set the shot up.
So you -have- to be a 'sniper' to play the game.
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No Actually this will make mech stay under the ECM umbrella like they should and work as a team. AND I think you misunderstand how this is implemented. ALL this will do is NOT converge if weapons are fired without the targeting computer having range calculated. The target will Still receive FULL damage just not converged.
I don't think you understand what convergence is.
Basic Geometry. Use it. When you converge at 350 meters, a target at 700 meters will be missed almost entirely (at that point, the separation of shots will be almost identical to their separation at firing).
Further - you are completely overpowering ECM in this case as you simply cannot establish any kind of convergence without a solid lock.
That's HORRIBLE simulation behavior. You do not clump up in real combat. Unless you just like 60% casualties from a mortar strike. The reason 'teamwork' in this game means to stack up nut-to-butt is largely because communication doesn't exist outside of premade teams. No one knows what the hell is going on with the other players unless they are right there to see it.
In the real world, teamwork means communication. You spread out so that you are less vulnerable to being pinned down but not so far away that you can't support each other.
What you're suggesting would more or less arbitrarily force everyone into a little sphere to protect themselves from anyone who isn't carrying TAG.
Because the DDC wasn't already important enough to bring along.
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No if you reread the above posts you will find this.
You are describing two completely different concepts.
-accuracy- is different from -convergence-.
When you set your weapons to converge at 600 meters, that means your bullets, lasers, etc will all cross paths with each other at 600 meters.
Accuracy is whether or not the dispensed fire ends up going where it is intended.
If you have convergence enabled on a target at 150 meters, and you decide to shift to a target at 450 meters, you will miss with every shot. That's how geometry works.
Having accuracy based on what you currently have targeted simply introduces an arbitrary cluster roll to everything that is largely outside of player control.
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yup I didn't see this one coming
If you understood your idea half as well as you thought you did, you would have seen that your "solution" to this problem that you 'saw coming' doesn't have any basis in real world mechanics.
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As stated before I am not trying to FIX all the issues of the game with one Idea, THAT is IMPOSSIBLE! But This and heat management as well as other (hard point size/weight restrictions) Balance added mechanics will eventually FIX this very broken game.
PGI is trying to buff and nerf ever weapon to balance and that is just an impossible task and that will and is should becoming more apparent to them as the larger the chassis selection becomes.
And what does this actually do to fix one of the main problems?
People are still going to min-max their builds to get the quickest kill possible. Not only is that done for competitive reasons, it's also done for very practical reasons of rapidly reducing the amount of incoming fire.
Is this really going to make mediums more survivable?
Possibly, but on the flip side - they're going to be missing just about as much as an equally skilled assault pilot. So there's little reason to pilot one for competitive play.
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Again you are just repeating yourself over and over in response to this read the bolded text above.
What do you think that says about how I perceive your level of intelligence?
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Lights will be in LOS and have target painted for Support fire so there for will have target range and will Converge. Your argument is a false one. Targeting IS the lights duty. Come, think this through
That's a nice thought in a perfect little world.
It doesn't work out that way in reality. You're lucky to have a paper doll to look at by time you're in range of the target and needing to fire and evade. Targets are rapidly shifting in and out of contact and ranges. You take shots of opportunity within a split second of seeing your team land a solid LRM hit.
Lights as scouts/spotters and lights as combatants are two different roles.
If your system is fast enough to make lights viable - then it's also fast enough to render any changes it makes moot - as a target can be acquired and killed as quickly as a light can pick up a target and click (because that's about all the time they have).
Which means mediums are back to being ****** and lights are back to being vaporized in that one good/lucky hit.
And your system would actually make convergence 'worse' for many weapons. When you lead a target, currently, you actually are set to converge on the terrain or skybox behind it - which means hitting a moving target with anything requiring a lead time cannot apply damage at the same exact spot on a mech. It can (and often does) register as hits to components adjacent to where one is intending to hit, spreading the damage.
Under this system - convergence would be set at target range and a moving target would be hit as if it were standing still.
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I would rather they lose the boating feature as well but that isn't going to happen, So we have to deal the cards we a re dealt. And No this is not an accuracy penalty as all weapons will still hit. IN reality THIS WILL BE A GREAT THING FOR LIGHTS. They will not be getting one shotted left and right. It will Add back into the game their maneuverability advantage.
I fail to see how.
Highlanders will simply drop in a TAG somewhere and make lights as delightfully irrelevant to your system as can be.
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Well then maybe you should have you ballistic weapons the primary and mapped to separate groups if you want every shot to be pinpoint and you can have the energy weapons follow them. Remember One weapon will be on the reticule at all times It is the others that have to synch with range to achieve convergence. This is a basic mechanic of any multi weapon firing system. BUT as is stated Even If you fire a ballistic At RNG with no targeting data you still hit the target!
This makes zero sense, as well. Your weapons must converge with your reticule - which is, itself, a line drawn straight out from your direct line of sight (actually, your eyes must converge on a target to see it properly, but they are so close together at this scale that we consider them as one). Unless the weapon is shooting out of your face, it can't possibly always converge where you are looking without some kind of system to adjust its aim.
That's like saying two people standing fifteen feet apart, facing the same direction can always look at the same thing without either having to turn their head. Without pulling out non-Euclidean geometry to describe space on the cosmic scales, that idea doesn't work.
Sight-of-Player must converge with Sight-of-Weapon A. If Sight-of-Weapon A is displaced from Sight-of-Player by any amount, then Sight-of-Weapon B can just as logically be set to always converge.
Your eyes do it without a tracking radar or really knowing what the distance to the target is.
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No-one is saying you will miss the shots will all still hit!!!! How many times do I have to repeat this????
You can say it all you want. It doesn't make the system you described behave the way you explain it - as you're pretty much trying to tell us that your system is going to taste like purple.
The convergence system is, for the most part, fine. They might still have some tweaking to do with how quickly mechs can 'focus' their weapons (you can see this if you snap to a more distant target and fire at it), but that's not the major problem with combat.
The major problem with combat is the mechlab as well as the overall balance of weapons, themselves.
The major problem with -game- balance is the lack of proper role warfare. So long as the primary objectives hinge largely around destroying the other team, heavies and assaults will be the preferred war-horses.
If you were to introduce modes of play that are more similar to, say, a king of the hill type match where a single 'hill' spawns and will award points based on whichever team is in it until a total of 50 points (or something) has been dispensed before another hill spawns.... then lights, mediums, and some of the quicker heavies would dominate those game modes.
There are still elements lacking within the role warfare aspect of combat - but even then, the fact is that on these incredibly small maps (even Alpine is a very small map for the proper implementation of role warfare utilizing scouts and mobility), a group of several decently skilled, coordinated assaults is going to trash a mixed role team even if they are 'better' in terms of skill and coordination.
Until gameplay objectives force more splitting of forces and force more uncertainty on your opponents' locations and routes of approach with movement of assaults coming with a heavy committal cost.... combat is never going to be 'what it should be.'
Which, to be honest, is going to require more than 12-v-12.
We'd need something more like a mod for ARMA2 or ARMA3 - hundreds of square kilometers of terrain with a whole myriad of strategic gameplay options with the occasional PvE scenario that needs addressing (squad of infantry needs to be put down - dispatch the locust).
Right now - we're basically playing Team Solaris without weight brackets. Which is really going to put a damper on how important role warfare actually is. Especially when maps are still as tiny as Alpine. It's only -just- big enough for some of the role warfare to start to show up from time to time. It's hardly large enough to make it a staple way of playing.
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