137 replies to this topic

[jakucha]

DV McKenna, on 08 July 2013 - 02:09 AM, said:

If the job was done right the first time round...with some proper QA testing and *gasp* player feedback in Closed Beta (where things were a little more focused and less rabble like)

They may not have adjusted balance weekly, but what they have done is usually pretty major has swings the meta wheel around.
See multiple LRM changes, SRM changes, PPC changes, Laser changes, LPL changes (that were really bizzare)

I'm not saying they couldn't have done a better base job with weapon balance, but let's be realistic here. Trying to balance a Mechwarrior game, for multiplayer no less, is no easy task, and I don't think any of the video games have done a particularly near perfect job.

Edited by jakucha, 08 July 2013 - 02:11 AM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

jakucha, on 08 July 2013 - 02:10 AM, said:

I'm not saying they couldn't have done a better base job with weapon balance, but let's be realistic here. Trying to balance a Mechwarrior game, for multiplayer no less, is no easy task, and I don't think any of the video games have done a particularly near perfect job.

When you try to account for weapon balance against specific styles of play, you'll never get anywhere.

Balance around top level, rock paper scissors effect so things have their own place and own niche, the unique thing about Mechwarrior is weapon balance can be achieved in multiple places, not just damage/splash if that means you have to throw the 1980's rulebook out the window..so be it.

[Hawks]

Devs are underpowered.

[Lord of All]

ARE there vids from the opposing teams view? I'd love to watch them!

[Mister Blastman]

Dudeman3k, on 07 July 2013 - 04:16 PM, said:

lol bumping this thread cause it halarious.

PPC arent the issue, it's how every PPC you mount all land in the same small area you alpha in, fix the way all weapon systems hit, and PPC will be fixed... as well as the high alpha, it's not rocket science. 2 birds one stone.

This. Convergence is and has always been the problem since June, a whole YEAR ago.

[No7]

Sephlock, on 07 July 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

Where is the part where they complain about PPCs ? I listened through it but it's pretty boring.... I can't bear to sit through it again.

Nah. Karl, the dev who doesn't even know how to ready up nor launch the game and gets killed really quick because he stands still in the open and have 4 mechs shooting at him, complains about the PPCs.

The other guy who talks to him corrects him and say that half the game they played against us (smoke jaguars) was heavy with PPCs. The other two drops, we used medium weapons and LRM support and still won 8-0.

Edited by No7, 08 July 2013 - 12:09 PM.

[SilentWolff]

While our unit has enjoyed the semi celebrity status we have garnered beating up on the devs, I think there a few critical points that should be mentioned.

The OP only posted 2 of the 3 games we played against the devs. Thanks to Monky for posting the third game. The reason this is important is 2 fold. First, we used no PPC boats on the third game. It was all missles and lasers, with maybe a PPC or 2. Secondly, as can be seen by the 3 vids, the Devs just arent good players. This fact is important because as we can see by this thread, it has devolved into a PPC flame thread, when in fact PPC's had very little to do with our victorys. The victorys came from skill and understanding the current meta of what weapons work best in concert with one another. I find it to be a bit disconcerting that the devs off all people, prefer to blame weapons for their losses, rather than teamwork. It's like putting a high school basketball team against the Harlem Globetrotters and when they lose horribly, saying the basketball was overpowered.

I would invite the devs to come play with us for awhile, or any competitive unit for that matter, to truely get a feeling for what the game is really like in competitive gameplay and then balance the game according to that experience. The game would be better in the long run for it.

[No7]

Lord of All, on 08 July 2013 - 06:56 AM, said:

ARE there vids from the opposing teams view? I'd love to watch them!

Sadly no.

[Acid Phase]

You can hear the Dev's claim it was

[Nicholas Carlyle]

While I think adjusting PPC heat and velocity a bit is fine.

Lest we not forget there are more weapons later in the timeline.

Chassis that can mount 2 PPC and 2 Gauss.

And the Clans.

We cannot lose sight of the fact that the MECHANICS of the game are bad.

Instant Convergence is bad.

Heat capacity is too high.

No penalties for running hot is bad.

[Ghost Rider LSOV]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 08 July 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

the Clans.

I wonder what's going to happen in MWO then.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Ghost Rider LSOV, on 08 July 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

I wonder what's going to happen in MWO then.

I can't possibly see anything good coming from the Clans if everything stays status quo.

It's just a sheer gankfest at that point, with point and click instant death.

They HAVE to come up with something to deal with convergence.

[Punkass]

SilentWolff, on 08 July 2013 - 12:09 PM, said:

While our unit has enjoyed the semi celebrity status we have garnered beating up on the devs, I think there a few critical points that should be mentioned.

The OP only posted 2 of the 3 games we played against the devs. Thanks to Monky for posting the third game. The reason this is important is 2 fold. First, we used no PPC boats on the third game. It was all missles and lasers, with maybe a PPC or 2. Secondly, as can be seen by the 3 vids, the Devs just arent good players. This fact is important because as we can see by this thread, it has devolved into a PPC flame thread, when in fact PPC's had very little to do with our victorys. The victorys came from skill and understanding the current meta of what weapons work best in concert with one another. I find it to be a bit disconcerting that the devs off all people, prefer to blame weapons for their losses, rather than teamwork. It's like putting a high school basketball team against the Harlem Globetrotters and when they lose horribly, saying the basketball was overpowered.

I would invite the devs to come play with us for awhile, or any competitive unit for that matter, to truely get a feeling for what the game is really like in competitive gameplay and then balance the game according to that experience. The game would be better in the long run for it.

I'll agree, the devs were just plain bad. I don't expect them to play like competitive players either. Either way, it was still rather cathartic to see some devs, who have been pretty quiet on weapon balancing, get outright schooled, and start to whine a little.

[TehSBGX]

PPCs aren't even that hard to fix. -.- Raise the heat back to Pre-buff levels, and drop projectile speed to be about the same as an AC5. There it's not awful but it's not too good either. Seriously, not that hard.

[Lugh]

Ghost Rider LSOV, on 08 July 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

I wonder what's going to happen in MWO then.

The storm of QQ will drown the internet in tears

[xXxBANExXx]

SERIOUSLY... I am one of the founder faithful. Lots of time and money, and no bitching... PPC's are awful in the boating config. How PGI Can hot fix missles in two seconds but *&0(*& sit on &(7$##$@ and @&#$% a round @#(^#$@ for *&&%ing with PPC's forever is beyond me. FIX IT and keep us up to daye with the game.... awfull.

[Raven Mendes]

with you bane with you

[Snuglninja]

You can buff srm to 10 it's not the cure. You still have to close. The only cure will be to force players to play other mechs beside heavy and assault. Either through cw weight, Bv . If not then they will boat whatever is the next thing, pulse ll, gauss, whatever. PPC is not the problem, it's every mech in the game with them, and you are trying not to be cheesy and run a medium or light.

Edited by Snuglninja, 08 July 2013 - 01:09 PM.

[Splitpin]

What I saw was a well organised and practiced team wipe a group of people who don't play a lot. That has little to do what weapons were being used. And to those who think nerfing convergence will help you. Think about it, convergence helps the average player more than the elite player - huh how? Take a 1 on 1 scenario where say both mechs are pretty damaged with say 30-40 points of CT remaining, with convergence the average player who hits his target say 50% of the time has a chance against the elite player who hits his target say 80% of the time. It's a one shot either way but the average player just might do it. Without convergence, such that say each weapon was fired separately and it was going to take 3,4,5 CT shots either way then the elite player is going to win it every time.

[xXxBANExXx]

Mendes 85, on 08 July 2013 - 01:02 PM, said:

with you bane with you

Thx Mended.. is poo poo