256 replies to this topic

[krash27]

Imagine that, a casual dropper is not liking getting pug stomped and has come to the forums. Funny how the premades call him a complainer then proceed to complain about possibly losing their pug farm ability. I see a suggestion back a few pages I like, put all teams in one Q (Which should have been done from the start instead of making an 8 man Q), and solo droppers in another. /boggle I myself do agree that a solo Q needs to be added or something needs to be done for casuals to enjoy the game. This would be the first game in history if organized, competitive players out numbered casuals. It's possible, but not likely. Most online games rely on the casuals to pay the bills.

[KAT Ayanami]

Im ok with playing with SOLO people (I do not team speak either).

The problem is when you get mechs that will just ignore the group and go SOLO literally.

Those morons get killed and we end up with a 6-8 or similar confrontation at the center of the map....

[Randalf Yorgen]

El Bandito, on 08 July 2013 - 05:54 AM, said:

Interesting idea.

Lights might simply choose to hide until the last enemy is left standing though. The arena needs to be small and have less obstacles.

Perhaps similar to Clans' Grand Melee ring with full exposure.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Grand_Melee

Long time TT player, our dice rolling group started play in 3040 and we had a blast. We played "MechWarrior" which is actually the roll playing part of Battletech and used Battletech for when we got into our mechs. We did lots and lots outside the mechs as well because as mercs, we had to sometimes take whatever contracts we could. sometimes that ment butting on combats and crawling through the fields and sometimes it meant putting on Tuxedoes and dancing the night away. we had a fantastic GM. There have been tons of great suggestions that could help MWO recover quickly but with no one being open and/or honest with us from the company side we have no way to know if our voices are being heard. Volunteer Moderators AREN"T PGI and I doubt they can get anything but status reports of the general flow of the forums through. The relationship between PGI and the long time player base (those of us who have been here since before the founders program was even hinted at) is becoming poisonous. I think IGP Legal has flexed it's legal weight and has ordered a stop to all real time association between them and us. Really sad as many of the guys I played with are now playing Neverwinter and I'm being drawn back into SWtoR. I see Star Citizen on the horizon so I might just sit back and wait my time till that comes out. I'll still drop here from time to time but this has stopped being my "GOT TO PLAY" game.

[Ghogiel]

MischiefSC, on 08 July 2013 - 03:02 PM, said:

I never said the game was dying because of evil premades. I didn't even say it was dying. My original solution was lobbies that allow you to set weight limits on teams, ignore Elo and premade/solo indicator next to your name in stats in game along with the ability to set your game in the lobby as solo only if you want.

We had this argument many moons ago Ghogiel. I'm the guy who said premades were not the main problem, poor matchmaking was. I still think that's the case. xDietyx however came in with a completely incorrect attempt to associate LoL matchmaking with MWOs. A solo queue however would be a benefit, as it would be a draw to that 70%. If there's not going to be a single player version of the game at least one that minimizes the need to deal with the MP aspect of the game would be good.

This is worth saying - the push in the industry towards multiplayer has NOTHING to do with changing player preferences. It has to do with piracy. A MP-only game or online only is all but impossible to pirate. Diablo 3 as an example. Don't mistake a drive in modern games to require always-on internet connection and justify it with MP for a shift in player dynamics.

Saying multiplayer has nothing to do with player preference is pushing the boat out. Multiplayer games basically blew up on consoles, and pretty much since WoW and xbox live the majority the the top selling games are multiplayer. Yeah those figures are tied into DRM, but with single player games always online DRM ridden these days, only things like skyrim are as big as the multiplayers which dominate the market. And skyrim got pirated the **** out of.

imo Deity is probably pretty close... there is no need to actually refer to the data Riot games put out. PGI has said that grouping doesn't give as much as an advantage as people think it does, so it sounds very similar to what Riot games was saying applies to their game.

It doesn't matter if you have a good PC, a **** one, are at higher resolutions and FPS, or just woke up or had a ton of coffee, in a team or not. All of which are advantages. Elo basically sorts it out anyway.

[dario03]

xDeityx, on 08 July 2013 - 09:47 AM, said:

And honestly you can compare anything you want. Who says you can't compare apples to oranges? They are of similar size but the apple is red or green and sweet compared to an orange which is more acidic. There, I just compared apples and oranges. Tada.

You can compare anything. The problem is that you are trying to say that if you can find anything similar about 2 things then everything that applies to one applies 100% to the other. Its like saying that since oranges and apples are of similar size anybody that likes a apple will like a orange. Even though you admit they are different you are ignoring the differences in your final answer.

[No Guts No Glory]

Ghogiel, on 08 July 2013 - 03:51 PM, said:

PGI has said that grouping doesn't give as much as an advantage as people think it does,

Regardless of what PGI says, the problem is that it's perceived to give a large advantage. Whether or not it does is irrelevant.
And this is easily solved by forcing a same sized group on each team with indicators for grouped players.

Ghogiel, on 08 July 2013 - 03:51 PM, said:

It doesn't matter if you have a good PC, a **** one, are at higher resolutions and FPS, or just woke up or had a ton of coffee, in a team or not. All of which are advantages. Elo basically sorts it out anyway.

Except none of those are under PGI's control. The matchmaker is. ELO is also somehow supposed to magically place groups against groups based on ELO. Does it work? Maybe. But without group indicators not one player can be certain either way.


But seriously, PGI. Annihilator pl0x.

[JohnnyWayne]

Ghogiel, on 08 July 2013 - 03:51 PM, said:

Elo basically sorts it out anyway.

Does it? I'm mostly dropping solo and I'm somewhat in an elo ranking where I almost ONLY queue against premades. The more I do, the more it fuels my hatred against any type of more than 3 man premades. In this ranking it makes a HUGE difference if you drop solo or against a premade.
It ruins the game for me, I play less and less, although I love mwo... Honestly there shouldn't be more than 2-man groups in the solo drop queue.

It's true, there are ****** 4mans out there and after seeing these PGI guys stream on twitch I don't wonder anymore where the assumtion comes from that "premades wouldn't matter that much". They don't see what I have to...

Moreover "get a group" is no argument at all. Peoply might just want to play a few games or want to speak their language. Just because some ******* want to keep roflstomping solo players, solo players should adapt or leave? I don't think so. Get your own queue. Oh what was that? You can't roflstomp anymore? Guess u r a sad panda then ....

I currently have only 2 types of matches: Either I roflstomp the enemy team alone (~6 kills) or I play against an obvious premade. Then it's a tough fight or I get steamrolled my own.

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 09 July 2013 - 02:39 AM.

[Tekadept]

A solo queue will do nothing, people that are that intent on griefing people, will synch drop multiple people at the same time, they will have a good chance of some of them ending up on same team, they will be on comms and continue to stomp people.

Please note just because people are in a group doesn't mean they are solely there for the intent of pug stomping, there are some perhaps but don't lump all in that category.

[MischiefSC]

Ghogiel, on 08 July 2013 - 03:51 PM, said:

Saying multiplayer has nothing to do with player preference is pushing the boat out. Multiplayer games basically blew up on consoles, and pretty much since WoW and xbox live the majority the the top selling games are multiplayer. Yeah those figures are tied into DRM, but with single player games always online DRM ridden these days, only things like skyrim are as big as the multiplayers which dominate the market. And skyrim got pirated the **** out of.

imo Deity is probably pretty close... there is no need to actually refer to the data Riot games put out. PGI has said that grouping doesn't give as much as an advantage as people think it does, so it sounds very similar to what Riot games was saying applies to their game.

It doesn't matter if you have a good PC, a **** one, are at higher resolutions and FPS, or just woke up or had a ton of coffee, in a team or not. All of which are advantages. Elo basically sorts it out anyway.

Multiplayer blew up on the PC. Mplayer and Ultima Online really drove it originally and from there FPS games with a multiplayer option grew out based on the marketing concept that multiplayer players drew in more non-pirated copies - you couldn't play a pirated copy online on the official servers with your friends without getting caught.

The problem is that most of these multiplayer games (CoD, Diablo 3, Starcraft, etc) actually only see a tiny percentage of total consumers play the multiplayer side of it. They're pushed as multiplayer titles but have a strong singleplayer aspect - which is what gets played the most. Generally 80 to 90% favoritism. I could probably dig up the articles from Activision/Blizzard about how no matter what they did with CoD or Diablo 3 they just couldn't get anyone to play MP.

Diety is way off in comparing the two and PGI has already said that groups have a significant advantage in MWO - just that they tend to be pretty balanced between teams. If one side has one the other probably does too. All that Elo does is average out statistically the odds of you being on one side of the equation as the other. There's also a world of difference between a couple of friends dropping together without voice coms and a 4-man out farming cbills for when the Victor gets released.

I wish Elo did sort it out better but to do that it would need to take more into account. Without BV Elo has at least taken the edge off but it's easy to game. As I said, I've got the same Elo dropping in a trial Dragon as I do in my AC40 Jag. The value I add to my team is drastically different and my impact on win/loss the same. When I'm dropping with a couple of buddies as we level up new mechs my performance is way, way off from when we coordinate mechs and run our best competitive builds. Elo doesn't account for that.

Again though, I've got no personal issue with teams vs pugs as things are now. I do think a solo only queue would be nice, lobby and tags identifying who's in group with who would would be better.

LoL vs MWO for matchmaking stats though? No viable basis for comparison.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

JohnnyWayne, on 08 July 2013 - 04:16 PM, said:

Does it? I'm ALWAYS drop** solo and I'm somewhat in an elo ranking where I almost ONLY queue against premades. The more I do, the more it fuels my hatred against any type of more than 3 man premades. In this rakning it makes a HUGE difference if you drop solo or against a premade.
It ruins the game for me, I play less and less, although I love mwo... Honestly there shouldn't be more than 2-man groups in the solo drop queue.

It's true, there are ****** 4mans out there and after seeing these PGI guys stream on twitch I don't wonder anymore where the assumtion comes from that "premades wouldn't matter that much". They don't see what I have to...

Moreover "get a group" is no argument at all. Peoply might just want to play a few games or want to speak their languate. Just because some ******* want to keep roflstomping solo players, solo players should adapt or leave? I don't think so. Get your own queue. Oh what was that? You can't roflstomp anymore? Guess u r a sad panda then ....

I currently have only 2 types of matches: Either I roflstomp the enemy team alone (~6 kills) or I play against an obvious premade. Then it's a tough fight or I get steamrolled my own.

spot on on how I feal PGI!! SPOT FRACKING ON!

** my edit

Edited by Funkadelic Mayhem, 08 July 2013 - 05:23 PM.

[Purlana]

krash27, on 08 July 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

. Most online games rely on the casuals to pay the bills.

Most subscription games do, but MWO is not one of those...

Edited by Purlana, 08 July 2013 - 05:30 PM.

[No Guts No Glory]

Most F2P titles make most of their money from casual players who can't devote as much time to getting items through in game means so they purchase them with real cash instead.

[Abaddonis]

I enjoy this game, but the premades pugstomping is ridiculous. Couple this with the PPC meta and the games can be downright lame. I can't justify buying the Phoenix pack until the devs make some serious changes.

[WarZ]

I whole heartedly endorse the OP's idea. I would love to be able to play solo and not be matched up against 2 different 4 man teams on the other side, and my side has ALL solo players. This happens fairly often.

Even aside from the above extreme example, we still should be seperated for a more fair gameplay experience. Pug stomping was always cheap. It still is.

Also when they do a chasis / tonnage matching for matches that will help alleviate this problem as well. However it will not completely fix it.

Lastly, being in a solo queue only will be a god send when they run thier "solo" only tournaments. You are basically punished to participate in the tournament. They dont allow you to drop with friends, taking away a considerable amount of the fun factor. They then put you into the pug stomped experience to really grind it in.

But bottom line - I agree with having a queue for non teamed players.

*Edit for typos.

Edited by WarZ, 08 July 2013 - 06:59 PM.

[Kaspirikay]

hi guys, just dropping in again still supporting solo queue.

[Sporklift]

I usually try to get on a team in my Merc Corps' TS, usually we can manage 4 people. I had last week off from work so I was able to get on consistantly for a 5 day stretch. Our success in a 4 man was just as chaotic as my success while solo. Of course it would help if some of my fellows had been just a little more involved in the game. We had a guy who would take a cig break every two games, usually when piloting a (slow) Atlas. Two minutes into the drop he'd come back to the computer.

Our OP strategy usually goes like this:
(names changed for humor)

Cigbreak2014: "I'm back...WTF where are you guys at?"
The Rest of Drop Alpha: "PRESS B!"
Cigbreak2014: "What? I couldn't find you so I just walked to thier base alone and died."
The Rest of Drop Alpha: *Face Palm*

TrolltheYounger: "Check out my Cicada AC 40 build, 2 tons of ammo at 54kph!"
TrolltheElder: "Nice! Check out my Spider Urbanmech build."
Team Leader: "Uh oh, its conquest guys. You realize the rest of our team is going to hate us."
TrolltheYounger/TrolltheElder: "Probably"

Mr. Torgue <-LOUD: "Hey Guys! I have an opinion on the balancing of this game! AND I'M GOING TO TALK OVER YOUR TACTICAL CHATTER JUST SO YOU KNOW WHAT IT IS! OH AND OTHER THINGS THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH OUR CURRENT ACTIVITIES!"
Team Leader: "Holy hell man..."
The DroningOrator <-Lonely: "I also have an opinion. Plus I'd like to tell you the entire history of Battletech (Which I am already familiar with.) Plus I want to talk to you about what I'm doing in EVE."
Team Leader: "Aaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhhhh!"

Sometimes a group is a liability and it slows down your rate of drops. The main advantage of a 4 man is that at least you know everyone on your team isn't suicide farming.

I will approve of solo dropping ques only if it allows for 2-man teams as well. The problem is team size might be restricted to 2, 4, 8, and later 12. As there will be no solo drops to fill a 4th slot in a 3 person team. We ended up with 3 person teams alot. The problem with having a single 8 man team vs 2x4 man groups is that 8 man groups are of a single mind. Since the gamer mind consists of the string: <murder-violate-troll> and alot of 8 mans are really competetive. 4 person casual teams might end up on the recieving end of a profound amount of verbal abuse and Clanner overacting/gloating.

[MischiefSC]

Sporklift, on 08 July 2013 - 09:34 PM, said:

I usually try to get on a team in my Merc Corps' TS, usually we can manage 4 people. I had last week off from work so I was able to get on consistantly for a 5 day stretch. Our success in a 4 man was just as chaotic as my success while solo. Of course it would help if some of my fellows had been just a little more involved in the game. We had a guy who would take a cig break every two games, usually when piloting a (slow) Atlas. Two minutes into the drop he'd come back to the computer.

Our OP strategy usually goes like this:
(names changed for humor)

Cigbreak2014: "I'm back...WTF where are you guys at?"
The Rest of Drop Alpha: "PRESS B!"
Cigbreak2014: "What? I couldn't find you so I just walked to thier base alone and died."
The Rest of Drop Alpha: *Face Palm*

TrolltheYounger: "Check out my Cicada AC 40 build, 2 tons of ammo at 54kph!"
TrolltheElder: "Nice! Check out my Spider Urbanmech build."
Team Leader: "Uh oh, its conquest guys. You realize the rest of our team is going to hate us."
TrolltheYounger/TrolltheElder: "Probably"

Mr. Torgue <-LOUD: "Hey Guys! I have an opinion on the balancing of this game! AND I'M GOING TO TALK OVER YOUR TACTICAL CHATTER JUST SO YOU KNOW WHAT IT IS! OH AND OTHER THINGS THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH OUR CURRENT ACTIVITIES!"
Team Leader: "Holy hell man..."
The DroningOrator <-Lonely: "I also have an opinion. Plus I'd like to tell you the entire history of Battletech (Which I am already familiar with.) Plus I want to talk to you about what I'm doing in EVE."
Team Leader: "Aaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhhhh!"

Sometimes a group is a liability and it slows down your rate of drops. The main advantage of a 4 man is that at least you know everyone on your team isn't suicide farming.

I will approve of solo dropping ques only if it allows for 2-man teams as well. The problem is team size might be restricted to 2, 4, 8, and later 12. As there will be no solo drops to fill a 4th slot in a 3 person team. We ended up with 3 person teams alot. The problem with having a single 8 man team vs 2x4 man groups is that 8 man groups are of a single mind. Since the gamer mind consists of the string: <murder-violate-troll> and alot of 8 mans are really competetive. 4 person casual teams might end up on the recieving end of a profound amount of verbal abuse and Clanner overacting/gloating.

So.... you're saying that in general using voice chat with strangers is no fun? I can understand that.

Otherwise though I absolutely agree with everything you're saying. A solo only queue and then a queue with no group size limits that has room for pugs to drop in would be cool. I'd drop in it. I'd rather drop with a group - you just follow who they're following and generally it works out fine.

[Taemien]

Should just change it to 4 man only queue as in, you need to be grouped to play. Get rid of ELO matchmaking and let it go at that. Need a lobby for it to work but thats an easy tradeoff.

Before you all get into a tizzle, remember thats how MechWarrior 3 worked, and it did well enough. And to a lesser extent, MW4 as well.

If everyone is a premade, then this problem isn't a problem anymore.

Edited by Taemien, 08 July 2013 - 10:52 PM.

[OpCentar]

I support a solo only queue because we are lacking players and new pilots tend to quit after being roflstomped a few times. Whether it's their only fault or not isn't important, what they perceive to be is. And that's the evil premades 99% of the time.

"Get on TS" doesn't cut it because there are plenty F2P competitors with more polished games out there, only BT fans will stay but the game can't grow on them alone.

[armyof1]

Taemien, on 08 July 2013 - 10:51 PM, said:

Should just change it to 4 man only queue as in, you need to be grouped to play. Get rid of ELO matchmaking and let it go at that. Need a lobby for it to work but thats an easy tradeoff.

Before you all get into a tizzle, remember thats how MechWarrior 3 worked, and it did well enough. And to a lesser extent, MW4 as well.

If everyone is a premade, then this problem isn't a problem anymore.

Should change it to a 8-man only queue for premades and a solo queue. Because if every premade had 8 players then this problem isn't a problem anymore. See what I did there?