63 replies to this topic

[Ghogiel]

CapperDeluxe, on 08 July 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

the matchmaker unfortunately will put low Elo players on the same team as high Elo. Now the opposing team's Elo should be similar, but the fact they're in the same game at all does not bode well. Elo needs to be separated out into tiers such that they cannot commingle!

It does happen, but it's very rare occurrence and only if it's the off patch week at 8am off peak time. Higher Elo rated players aren't really getting put into noob games very often, don't take my word for it, start a smurf account and you'll see how noob new players games actually are. My experience of smurfing is the amount of sucky players is more frustrating than an over abundance of crack shot STKs...

Edited by Ghogiel, 08 July 2013 - 07:46 AM.

[XX Sulla XX]

Yes clearly they need to rework how new players are introduced to the game. Probably something where new players are matched with other new players if possible and then the very low elo players if they have to add besides other new players. And this is is true for say those first 25 matches. Then is slowly makes the game harder for them over time to ease them into the game. And of course good tutorials and training before they get going.

What I am hoping is that they already have this planned and are working on it. But that they just have so many other things to fix they have not implemented it yet. But the plan it to have it in and working well before the game goes out of beta and they have the big advertising push.

[Jman5]

Divine Madcat, on 08 July 2013 - 04:53 AM, said:

The next 4 matches, she winds up fighting at least 2 PPC stalkers a match (i think there were more, but only going by what i counted). In her trial C4, she was all but instantly obliterated. At that point, she logged off, and went back to WoW....

Just curious, but when she died did you comfort her by telling her that PPCs were imbalanced, unfair, or cheese? I find one of the biggest ways to turn a new person off from a game is to tell her there is essentially no hope at countering whatever killed them. Imbalance discussions should not even enter the equation until weeks down the road when she has gotten a handle on the game.

[mogs01gt]

Ghogiel, on 08 July 2013 - 07:17 AM, said:

Hate to say it, those people in the ppc STKs yet are still at beginner level Elo ratings must be terrible at the game.
With the cadet bonus new players should be out of the trial mechs in a handful of matches and into a real mech, in which time all those bads can be farmed and you really get started on the ladder.

Doesnt matter how "terrible" they are, they still have a big advantage over new players.

[Migwelder]

I started playing a couple of months ago and here is my experience of the game so far.

I first started when there were'nt any options to change mouse settings in the menu and I could'nt get the user.cfg to work so I could'nt even aim at anything properly. There's no real tutorial so I was pretty much just thrown to the wolves straight away, my trial mech being put up against ppc boats that were coring me out in two shots while I could'nt even aim the crap weapons I had properly. Needless to say I uninstalled the game after about a day.

I read that mouse options had been added in after a few weeks so I came back and tried the game again. I can actually aim properly and be competative but am highly frustrated by PPC's and AC's dominating all the time so after a while get annoyed and uninstall again.

After a few weeks I figured I'd have another go and find not only are PPC's and AC's still dominant but now there's also seismic sensor to worry about. I stuck with it a bit longer this time but have uninstalled again just before the movement up hills patch arrived, have'nt even tried it out since then.

I really want to like this game as I have a soft spot for battletech and mechwarrior but I think that's all that keeps bringing me back, fond memories and a hope that things will get better. Sadly, with my experiences in other F2P games such as battlestar galactica online, needforspeedworld and battlefield play 4 free where small dev teams take forever to release content and can't seem to fix balance and gameplay issues in a reasonable time if at all, I don't have much hope for this one either.

I hope I'm wrong about that.......

Edited by Migwelder, 08 July 2013 - 08:15 AM.

[Ghogiel]

mogs01gt, on 08 July 2013 - 08:08 AM, said:

Doesnt matter how "terrible" they are, they still have a big advantage over new players.

Arguably. How much better is a **** player compared to a new player?

If you are talking about mechs... only for about 6 matches.

Also the champion mechs are actually of some use. That 4P © was a slow medium brawler and yet could be used to eat bads and noobs all day as a smurf. If it's just because of the ****** trial mechs that gives the advantage, it's short lived.

And for an ENTIRE YEAR pretty much everyone has said> " trial mechs are ****, PGI are you stupid?"

Edited by Ghogiel, 08 July 2013 - 08:18 AM.

[Purlana]

There are probably not that many new player in the game, and that's why you get stuck facing PPC stalkers. I constantly face the same players. If you look at the 8 man games, sometimes you face the same team 3 times in a row...

[Ghogiel]

Purlana, on 08 July 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

If you look at the 8 man games, sometimes you face the same team 3 times in a row...

Or get no teams 3 times in a row.

[Divine Madcat]

Jman5, on 08 July 2013 - 08:06 AM, said:

Just curious, but when she died did you comfort her by telling her that PPCs were imbalanced, unfair, or cheese? I find one of the biggest ways to turn a new person off from a game is to tell her there is essentially no hope at countering whatever killed them. Imbalance discussions should not even enter the equation until weeks down the road when she has gotten a handle on the game.

Nope.. left my feelings out of it. I gave her advice on how to move, what to look out for, and what to do if sshe gets stuck, etc. I told her how weapon ranges work, but that was about it. Sadly after her fourth instance death to a ppc boat, she apologized, and just said it wasn't fun at that point.

I don't blame her.. she got steamrolled pretty hard, and nothing I coulddo could help. Btw, this was on a Sunday, mid afternoon. Should not have been hard finding people...

[Deathlike]

There are two issues at work, and you are not going to like either.

1) There is no "newbie queue". What Newbies have is a "newbie ELO rating", which goes away after the cadet bonus goes bye bye. This has the subtle benefit of not hurting your actual ELO (it has a different rating internally) until the cadet bonus is done (25 matches). It has as the unintended side effect of allowing the MM to match you up with super high ELO players to even things out. So... the high ELO player is there to "carry the newbies" as it were.

2) Premades are usually matched up with other premades... with solo PUGs to fill in uneven team size matches (sometimes a 4-man premade is added to a 3-man premade, meaning a solo PUG must fill the ranks). Unfortunately, there is no premade-ELO factorization (as actual premades/teamplay should be factored into how "team ELO" is determined), which means that the game isn't actually weighing the team's ELO... it's still just an average. This is VERY unhelpful when you're teamed up with a newbie PUG in a premade. What this amounts to is that the higher ELO player in the premade is expected to do the work of higher level premades... and that's just unrealistic.

All I can say is that there are actual issues beyond the obvious ones we're used to, that are problematic with the MM. This and the fluctuating playerbase that is "supposedly" getting a lot of newbies but getting matched up and probably CRUSHED because of what they end up getting matched with (usually with players of higher ELO).. it is not actually productive for newbies. I'm just happy if I don't see a trial mech on my team in a match... it's just bad when I get more than 1 in a match, let alone 3 which is an immediate handicap. I'm sure the MM expects us to lose, but when we lose, it's really really bad.

Edited by Deathlike, 08 July 2013 - 08:43 AM.

[Tombstoner]

mogs01gt, on 08 July 2013 - 05:27 AM, said:

The problem isnt a learning curve issue. The problem is getting matched with people who have mechs capable of one shotting you...

Also veteran players who make new accounts to build the 4-6ppc stalker and flat out own new people. some think that is fun. its also new players reading on line about what is OP and building that specific build and then owning new players.

PGI has been warned all along by many people regarding many different issues since closed beta. PGI has pulled a titanic and is pushing full stream ahead to release. Beta testers have warned PGI of the pin point damage iceburg and its affect on new players. I cant blame your wife for dropping. if i wasn't a hard core BT fan i would have dropped long long ago.

[Xie Belvoule]

The major problem in my mind is that the newbie Elo is too high and MWO has a glut of bad players. I believe that new player Elo is 1100, but most people who play this game are terribad so the vast majority of the player base has an Elo that hangs right around 1100. Thus the new player is getting stuck in with all the average players. I think they need to lower new player Elo as it too closely matches the average Elo.

[Lostdragon]

Xie Belvoule, on 08 July 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

The major problem in my mind is that the newbie Elo is too high and MWO has a glut of bad players. I believe that new player Elo is 1100, but most people who play this game are terribad so the vast majority of the player base has an Elo that hangs right around 1100. Thus the new player is getting stuck in with all the average players. I think they need to lower new player Elo as it too closely matches the average Elo.

I think they should throw out MM using average team ELO and divide ELO into tiers, maybe 5-6 tiers. You start out in Tier 1 and you only have matches with people +-1 tier from you. This creates a better experience for everyone as it matches the best against the best and the worst against the worst. Those who learn the game and get batter will move up the tiers gradually and the game gets progressively harder as they face more advanced players.

I think that is far superior to the mish mash we have going on right now. In this situation the MM does not have to try to make anyone win or lose, it would be sorted out because if you are winning you will move up and face better opponents. If you start losing you will move down, so it basically balances itself out.

[PropagandaWar]

Roland, on 08 July 2013 - 05:39 AM, said:

Honestly, the Matchmaker is total trash at this point.

On Saturday I was pugging it up, and the matchmaker kept building up a team of me and a bunch of random folks against 4 Dv8 guys and 4 Lunawolves. It did this like 5 games in a row. Some of the folks on my team were in freaking trial mechs for God's sake.

It wasn't like the Dv8 and Lunawolves were trying to sync drop or something... I sure as hell wasn't trying to get matched up against them. But the matchmaker just kept dumping us in the same game, over and over again.

What's ridiculous though is the fact that it actually kept putting the two 4 mans onto the same team. I honestly wouldn't have expected that. I suppose it's possible that the matchmaker just says, "OK, I got 4 guys on this team... need 4 more.. OH HAI! There's 4 more guys! I can fill up the team in one fell swoop!"

If that's actually how the matchmaker does it, then that's a problem. On some level, I think the devs need to know this, but I kind of doubt they're gonna read this.

Anyway... at the same time, there really should not be any trial mech guys who are just learning the game EVER matched up against top tier teams like Dv8. That is not something that should really ever happen with any kind of regularity.

Honestly, the matchmaker is kind of a lost cause at this point. Allowing a lobby system so folks can just make their own teams would work out infinitely better, and really should be infinitely more simple to implement.

Yeah you and I both have seen this. Even running in my group and having another premie with us. Same has gone the other way where Im pugging or with one buddy and "BaM" the op team two premies. Not their fault but crap makes for a uphill fight thats for damn sure.

[hammerreborn]

Genewen, on 08 July 2013 - 05:31 AM, said:

I blame elo.
As PGI has already mentioned several times, the matchmaker tries to bring us to a Win/Loss ratio of about 1. Yesterday, when I logged in, I had quite a few more wins than losses. So what did the matchmaker do? Throw me in with at least two newbies and a bunch of simply bad players every single match while the opponent did not have one. While I surely got my damage and kills, the games were no contest and we got steamrolled most of the time.

It is very likely that something similar happened to your wife. She, and other new (or bad) players keep getting used by the MM to drop other player's W/L ratio.

Ah yes the ol' I lost a game because Elo sucks and paired me with noobs argument.

Ever stop to think that your only wins are because the enemies have such large amounts of "noobs" that you were able to beat them?

In summary, you aren't that good, get over yourself.

Tombstoner, on 08 July 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

Also veteran players who make new accounts to build the 4-6ppc stalker and flat out own new people. some think that is fun. its also new players reading on line about what is OP and building that specific build and then owning new players.

PGI has been warned all along by many people regarding many different issues since closed beta. PGI has pulled a titanic and is pushing full stream ahead to release. Beta testers have warned PGI of the pin point damage iceburg and its affect on new players. I cant blame your wife for dropping. if i wasn't a hard core BT fan i would have dropped long long ago.

And I know someone that has done that. He said its like night and day compared to our usual bracket. He's shown me screens where he's done like 900 damage and 6 kills in trial mechs.

[Homeless Bill]

zraven7, on 08 July 2013 - 05:48 AM, said:

Allow me to rephrase.

Please tell your wife that a vocal portion of the community apologizes for it's current state, and hopes that she will attempt the game again, as we would love to watch our player base grow, and hope that, in the future, she learns to enjoy the game as we do.

I disagree. Tell your wife, "look happy to listen to your concerns but your on a bit of an island there bud the game is in the best state to date..."

=P

[Corvus Antaka]

not introducing anyone new to this game until the ppc pinpoint meta is fixed. having ahard time enjoying it much myself right now. we rly need tonnage limits too.

[Deathlike]

The PPC meta is too depressing, which has a lot less to do with MM than anything.

When you see 3 PPC hunchies or multi-PPC lights+mediums being fielded... there is something truly wrong.

[HansBlix WMD]

Guys, we can't prevent noobs from playing with competitive level ppcwarriors. That would divide the community!

[Rippthrough]

Divine Madcat, on 08 July 2013 - 04:53 AM, said:

If this is what new players are running into, we have a REAL problem here folks. I like to think of my wife as an avid gamer; if she is run off that easy, what is happening to new players, who have no tutorial what so ever, and get dropped into their first matches against insta-kill boats? How many people are we losing because of that alone?

The matchmaker keeps dropping them with me. Then sticks a couple of premades on the other side.
Seriously, this happens way too often to me to be a coincidence, it really does try to balance a half decent team on one side with a couple of good pilots on the other and 6 newbies.

It's a ***********. Random games would be better.