344 replies to this topic

[HansBlix WMD]

It can't continue. Trying to play with 7 random mouthbreathers vs two groups of four people is too ridiculous. You have to make a solo queue. Whether it's smaller numbers or whatever doesn't matter. Tired of losing 10,15,20 games in a row with the team stackers giving us a nice "gg lol ez" afterwards is enough to make me quit.

[KHETTI]

i can sum up MWO in one word as to how it plays as of this time....Garbage.
Sorry PGI but its true.

PS. sad that so many groups cower away from playing other groups and instead drop in what should be a solo only queue, and some of the excuses i've been given as to why is a hoot.

Edited by KHETTI, 28 June 2013 - 06:39 PM.

[Mycrus]

You should have seen it before elo was implemented...

I stopped running 4-mans pre-elo... That was ez snooze mode...

[MechGorilla]

Here's a crazy idea: Install TeamSpeak (or Vent, Mumble, whatever) and get on one of the many, completely free, servers and start teaming up with people. This game was designed to be a team game, people who cooperate and work together will always "stomp" a bunch of "random mouthbreathers".

Even if you seperate out the queues, there will be people who naturally work together, learn to use the command interface, or [gasp!] use the chat to work together. Then you'll be complaining that you want those tools disabled because it's not fair that these people have figured out how to play the game the way it was designed to be played.

[HansBlix WMD]

MechGorilla, on 28 June 2013 - 06:42 PM, said:

Here's a crazy idea: Install TeamSpeak (or Vent, Mumble, whatever) and get on one of the many, completely free, servers and start teaming up with people. This game was designed to be a team game, people who cooperate and work together will always "stomp" a bunch of "random mouthbreathers".

Even if you seperate out the queues, there will be people who naturally work together, learn to use the command interface, or [gasp!] use the chat to work together. Then you'll be complaining that you want those tools disabled because it's not fair that these people have figured out how to play the game the way it was designed to be played.

1. I do get on the public TS servers. Sometimes you just feel like soloing it though. Why does that have to be a guaranteed loss?

2. Not all people are willing to get on a TS server just to play a game. Do you realize that making them have a 75-90% loss rate is going to make them quit? Do you want the game to die or prosper?

Having a solo queue is not a radical proposition. If you want to play the game with 3 close friends calling targets and strats with cohesive mech builds, why are you afraid to be limited to play against and with people also doing the same thing?

You and people like you are cowards who wish to prey upon the weak to stroke your own ego.

[One Medic Army]

So I play both PUG and teamed.
Teamed definitely puts me against teams/skilled opponents more often.

It's probable that your 7PUG vs 2 4man team match was more likely a non-serious 3man+you+4 PUGs vs a serious 4man plus 4 random PUGs.
Or in other words, if you see 4+4 vs 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1 frequently it's probably just in your head.

[dario03]

MechGorilla, on 28 June 2013 - 06:42 PM, said:

Here's a crazy idea: Install TeamSpeak (or Vent, Mumble, whatever) and get on one of the many, completely free, servers and start teaming up with people. This game was designed to be a team game, people who cooperate and work together will always "stomp" a bunch of "random mouthbreathers".

Even if you seperate out the queues, there will be people who naturally work together, learn to use the command interface, or [gasp!] use the chat to work together. Then you'll be complaining that you want those tools disabled because it's not fair that these people have figured out how to play the game the way it was designed to be played.

Actually its designed to be team vs team so why don't the people that want to team up go join the 8 mans? Or heres a idea, how about the MM puts any group of 2 or more into the 8man queue along with other teams in order to fill the 8 man with 1-4 groups on each side. It could even tell them hey your in the 8man now heres a minute to ask the team what TS channel they're on so you can join up in TS (later it could be automatic if using built in chat). If its fair for 4+ people to fight a full team of randoms then its fair for 2x4 to fight a 8man. Now all of a sudden we don't have empty 8 mans and the people that want to play with others have a better in game way of running into each other. And if there isn't enough people on at a time to do that then go ahead and put them back in the regular queue but limit it to 1 premade per side and try to get another on the other side, or use a elo modifier, or get some weight matching.

[Mystere]

I will just quote myself from earlier this year:

Fellow PUGs, pull yourselves up by your bootstraps. Learn to adapt, overcome, prevail. We already know they are making up for their handicaps.

[Roland]

They should implement a solo only queue, and then put everyone else into the same queue, regardless of team size.

The OP though... it seems unlikely that it would consistently put you on a team with NO groups, against a team with TWO groups.

[Lugh]

HansBlix WMD, on 28 June 2013 - 06:32 PM, said:

It can't continue. Trying to play with 7 random mouthbreathers vs two groups of four people is too ridiculous. You have to make a solo queue. Whether it's smaller numbers or whatever doesn't matter. Tired of losing 10,15,20 games in a row with the team stackers giving us a nice "gg lol ez" afterwards is enough to make me quit.

Quick run in 8 random directions!
Follow that with the ***** decision not to support the Assaults and Heavies on your team!
Ima cap em!
No you'll die alone on the enemy teams base mostly....mostly.

[Zervziel]

HansBlix WMD, on 28 June 2013 - 06:32 PM, said:

It can't continue. Trying to play with 7 random mouthbreathers vs two groups of four people is too ridiculous. You have to make a solo queue. Whether it's smaller numbers or whatever doesn't matter. Tired of losing 10,15,20 games in a row with the team stackers giving us a nice "gg lol ez" afterwards is enough to make me quit.

People complaining about teamwork being OP.



In truth there are a couple zeroes behind that six.

[HansBlix WMD]

Zervziel, on 28 June 2013 - 07:10 PM, said:

People complaining about teamwork being OP.



In truth there are a couple zeroes behind that six.

Translation: Do not threaten my ability to rampage over casual players in my tryhard group. It's what makes my life worth living. I will stifle your speech with crappy meme posters.

You're too transparent.

[One Medic Army]

HansBlix WMD, on 28 June 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

Translation: Do not threaten my ability to rampage over casual players in my tryhard group. It's what makes my life worth living. I will stifle your speech with crappy meme posters.

You're too transparent.

No, seriously, this exact thread was created on a daily basis throughout most of Closed Beta and for several months into Open Beta.
Matchmaking is, for the random solo player, hugely improved versus older versions.

Hugely improved meaning you can still expect to lose in 50% of games, and probably die in 75% plus of games, because you know that's about average.
If you don't like everyone running off to the 4corners alone to die, take command (hit B, click the button) and put up some waypoints for everyone to group at.
It works.

[HansBlix WMD]

One Medic Army, on 28 June 2013 - 07:18 PM, said:

No, seriously, this exact thread was created on a daily basis throughout most of Closed Beta and for several months into Open Beta.
Matchmaking is, for the random solo player, hugely improved versus older versions.

Hugely improved meaning you can still expect to lose in 50% of games, and probably die in 75% plus of games, because you know that's about average.
If you don't like everyone running off to the 4corners alone to die, take command (hit B, click the button) and put up some waypoints for everyone to group at.
It works.

Yup any of that is going to do anything vs the four stalker stacks, or the four ac40 stacks, or whatever cheese strat Dropship X is going with that round. You are so full of it.

Pugs don't lose 50% of games to stacks. It's more like 95%.

There is no valid reason to not put soloers with other soloers. Maybe there's a reason there's this many threads about it.

[Xeno Phalcon]

Iv been pugging pretty much all day and only a couple of times ran into partial premades, no full on premades that I was aware of and lemme tell ya I still did plenty of raging, PUGing is a true trial by fire you either get insanely good or get dragged to your doom by many stupid people who (from the spectator bench) will point out that they fully are under the impression that you are dumber then they are and everything your doing is being done wrong.

Even if solos only dropped against other solos, would still be a painful roll of the dice every damn time.

[Ningyo]

The problem is not really teams vs PUG, although the present implementation of ELO allows it to be a problem. There are other solutions that get around this problem more effectively or with less splitting of the player base.

Possible solutions to at least some of the present problems (not all of these need implemented at the same time)

Have Matchmaker consider teams as though they had slightly higher ELO than the players they contain to make up for the advantage they gain in teamwork. (if the ELO boost is properly adjusted this should put them up against players that will do fairly even without the voice coms and such.)

Add in a battlevalue of some sort for the mechs being used, so a player with a 1700 ELO would be matched against better players using a 4PPC Stalker than when they use a trial Atlas.

Add in a stock mech mode: this would allow new players to play against players in at least similar quality mechs instead of being thrown into the Min/max competitive scene instantly. Also this is more likely to bring back or in more players to offset any splitting of player base at least partially.

Implement in game voice for all teams (think this is being worked on): This won't equalize mech quality, but will help a lot with teamwork which would at least narrow the gap. Also it would allow for new players to be given tips and help easier helping them get better quicker and likely getting more to keep playing till they get the hang of things.


EDIT: also I pug exclusively and have a pretty decent win record a significant amount of the teamwork advantage can be overcome by skill, and I am far from the most skilled player out there. It does help a ton to build a good mech though (and even not cheese builds can be viable below a certain ELO level)

Edited by Ningyo, 28 June 2013 - 07:28 PM.

[Mycrus]

for the nth time... learn 2 grumble!

[One Medic Army]

HansBlix WMD, on 28 June 2013 - 07:23 PM, said:

Yup any of that is going to do anything vs the four stalker stacks, or the four ac40 stacks, or whatever cheese strat Dropship X is going with that round. You are so full of it.

Pugs don't lose 50% of games to stacks. It's more like 95%.

There is no valid reason to not put soloers with other soloers. Maybe there's a reason there's this many threads about it.

No, seriously, I PUG and play teams.
I can guarantee to you that based on my games PGI currently seems to favor placing teams vs teams.
When I team up with a single friend, suddenly it's 4mans everywhere.

4 PPC stalkers is probably not a 4man team, it's just a bunch of people all doing FOTM. If they all stand in the same spot they're almost as good as an actual coordinating team.

Quite a while back, before the current matchmaker, I recoded stats of a bunch of PUG matches. I had a win rate of ~40-45% IIRC.

If you are actually losing 95% of the time (and not just mis-remembering, seriously check your W/L in your stats), then even matchmaker can't take the blame for that.

Edited by One Medic Army, 28 June 2013 - 07:29 PM.

[Waking One]

Screw people who want to play with games amirite. Also it pretty much never puts two premades vs one group of pugs, just happens that a ton of premades are also terrible at the game.

[HansBlix WMD]

100% of my games are stomps for one side or the other. And they are pretty obviously caused by one side having at least one full 4 man stack, usually two.