48 replies to this topic

[IceSerpent]

PEEFsmash, on 09 July 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

As was just pointed out above, SRMs were not just doing 2.5 damage, they were doing sometimes 7-8 times that much because of splash damage bug. Having them at 2.5 wont result in assualts getting 2 shotted.

*sigh* Why don't you guys think prior to typing numbers? SplatCat doing 7 times its normal damage would have had 630 pt alpha strike, which (given that it was very easy to put the whole salvo into the target's torso) is more than enough to 1-shot any mech on the battlefield from the front, yet for some reason no Atlas pilots ever complained about being insta-killed that way.

[Dexion]

kesuga7, on 09 July 2013 - 12:34 PM, said:

yea i know about the Srm bug but to me it seems like that build is still going to be strong
even if it isn't the wacky amount of damage they were doing before whats to stop a streak catapult with bap chasing down lights and mediums

or in other words splatkats are going to dominate lights-mediums while also posing a threat to -heavies and assaults

sadly even with a srm buff its going to maximize a single variant more than others

Yes it will be strong, but only at close range. Streak-Cats and Splat-Cats both have some very clear weaknesses (Limited range, exposed "Ears" and big cockpits). If the splash bug is squashed, they will not be the sight of terror they once were.

Edited by Dexion, 09 July 2013 - 12:41 PM.

[Trauglodyte]

Lightfoot, on 09 July 2013 - 12:32 PM, said:

In MechWarrior the Map dictates what works best. That is the big balancing element. You can always try to work a short-range rush on a long range open map, but you will likely get yer butt shot off. Meanwhile short-range in a city or narrow canyon will always win. Even now this is so. MechWarrior map range/heat tactics will make Mechlab very important when we know what map we are going too.

It doesn't matter to the PPC/Gauss builds how much heat is built. The whole point is to blast single alphas into your target whether you overheat or not. Even if you shut down, when you power back up, you sling back in a single Gauss until your cool enough to power the PPCs back up.

[WarZ]

Homeless Bill, on 09 July 2013 - 11:51 AM, said:

in favor of a more aim- and maneuvering-oriented game

Ive spectated you and your play style. This is completely how you play. Now you're cool and all but you are asking for the game to fit your play style at the expense of others play styles. That doesnt seem very fair or balancing.

For the record I play everything well, I'm not a sniper only, brawler only, etc, so i'm not trying to support one or the other.

In a way though the game is very aim and manuevering as it is now. And you can make it more so by the mech you choose to play.

In regards to the OP, I like the suggestions that have been kicked around that put a limitation on how many "big" weapons you can fire at once. Being able to alpha 3 ppc's and a guass is pretty crazy, and generally didnt fit in with the novels. Whether its my suggested power requirement / limit or the targeting computer limit etc, it seems that additional layer could address the current issues while still allowing the game to maintain its nice customizing options.

[PEEFsmash]

IceSerpent, on 09 July 2013 - 12:38 PM, said:

*sigh* Why don't you guys think prior to typing numbers? SplatCat doing 7 times its normal damage would have had 630 pt alpha strike, which (given that it was very easy to put the whole salvo into the target's torso) is more than enough to 1-shot any mech on the battlefield from the front, yet for some reason no Atlas pilots ever complained about being insta-killed that way.

That's because it wasn't happening to that extent to Atlases. It was happening primarily to mechs with more compact geometry, like Commandos. Atlases actually had a bug where SRMs would do far less damage than they should to Atlas legs.

[Dexion]

IceSerpent, on 09 July 2013 - 12:38 PM, said:

*sigh* Why don't you guys think prior to typing numbers? SplatCat doing 7 times its normal damage would have had 630 pt alpha strike, which (given that it was very easy to put the whole salvo into the target's torso) is more than enough to 1-shot any mech on the battlefield from the front, yet for some reason no Atlas pilots ever complained about being insta-killed that way.

The number he is quoting did not apply to all mech's equally (or even to every missile in a single salvo equally). Atlas, with large/simple hitbox's were actually effected the least... Compact mechs with complex hitbox's were effected the most (which is why it took so long for the problem to be discovered).

[kesuga7]

Yes it will be strong, but only at close range. Streak-Cats and Splat-Cats both have some very clear weaknesses (Limited range, exposed "Ears" and big cockpits)

thats the same thing with the current ac 40 jaggers though - splatkat (well same principle at least as in their vulnerabilities )

Limited range (ballistic to missile yes) ,
xl engines some times (if you want to go faster at least) ,

low armoured
(Can't you make a ac 40 jagger wiith max armour and decent speed anyways )

their still going pretty strong though

Edited by kesuga7, 09 July 2013 - 12:46 PM.

[Dexion]

Ac40 applies its damage to a single location, 6xsrm6 (with the new missile spread) will never apply all its damage to one panel unless you're basically standing still (and even then I don't think it will). AC40's also are not hard capped at 270m range... at 540m that AC40 is still hitting you with a 20 point, pinpoint alpha. AC40 Jagger is worlds ahead of the Splatcat in nearly every way.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Just to address the two or three weapons what about tweaking how they work? Gauss and ERPPC are supposed to be long range sniper weapons, and PPCs I read argured are mid range sniper weapons.

So possibly adjusting the heat back up, maybe a fire delay is one more way, another could be a beam duration for the PPCs.




At any rate something besides the boating penalty needs to be used to improve the situation.

[kesuga7]

Dexion, on 09 July 2013 - 12:46 PM, said:

Ac40 applies its damage to a single location, 6xsrm6 (with the new missile spread) will never apply all its damage to one panel unless you're basically standing still (and even then I don't think it will). AC40's also are not hard capped at 270m range... at 540m that AC40 is still hitting you with a 20 point, pinpoint alpha. AC40 Jagger is worlds ahead of the Splatcat in nearly every way.

well if ac 40 jagger are better for slower heavier armored mechs wouldn't splatkats be much more proficient for lights-mediums

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...aa4847e7a042cd5 24 damage if returned to 2
*85 kph with BAP - ability to target lights with only 1 ecm field

(But yes its main and probably only use would be to hunt lights-mediums)



That would be 72 damage splatkat with 6 srm 6 (If srm Damage is changed to 2/two )

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4b53d8fd4f8f53f
86 kph (this isn't a showcase of my splatkats build though just general idea of what it would be like )


im not saying there shouldn't be a srm buff but there needs to be more restrictions as said

Edited by kesuga7, 09 July 2013 - 01:13 PM.

[HansBlix WMD]

Lightfoot, on 09 July 2013 - 12:32 PM, said:

In MechWarrior the Map dictates what works best. That is the big balancing element. You can always try to work a short-range rush on a long range open map, but you will likely get yer butt shot off. Meanwhile short-range in a city or narrow canyon will always win. Even now this is so. MechWarrior map range/heat tactics will make Mechlab very important when we know what map we are going too.

Let me try to fix this for you.

Quote

In PPCWarrior the PPC dictates what works best. That is the big balancing element. You can always try to work a short-range rush on a long range open map, but you will likely get yer butt shot off by PPCs. Meanwhile short-range PPC boat in a city or narrow canyon will always win. Even now this is so. PPCWarrior map range/heat tactics will make PPClab very important when we know what map we are going to.

Edited by HansBlix WMD, 09 July 2013 - 01:10 PM.

[Dexion]

72 damage, spread out (remember, missiles used to have a "sweet spot" where they would converge, they don't any more), with some damage missing completely and a hard capped range of 270 (missile's explode).

Scary close in, as it should be... Hamburger if confronted with anything faster or longer ranged.

[Hellcat420]

if they removed the heat capacity increase from heatsinks(which should not be there in the first place) the cheese builds would be broken.

[kesuga7]

Dexion, on 09 July 2013 - 01:12 PM, said:

72 damage, spread out (remember, missiles used to have a "sweet spot" where they would converge, they don't any more), with some damage missing completely and a hard capped range of 270 (missile's explode).

Scary close in, as it should be... Hamburger if confronted with anything faster or longer ranged.

but should it be scarier than many brawler builds that are mean't for close range

that's 144 damage in two aplha strikes (the cycle time isn't to long either) - even if it is splashed

[Nicholas Carlyle]

I still can't figure out why people want mechs to die FASTER.

Why bother playing a mech game at that point?

[Roland]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 09 July 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

we going to have to wait 3 months.

[SirLANsalot]

Countess Hemah, on 09 July 2013 - 11:35 AM, said:

as a Pilot of Multiple Highlander builds and a HM it makes me cry when I see those builds...

Its da truth, and a sad one at that.

Noobs everywhere are shooting themsleves in the foot EVERY time they play with 2 PPC+Guass on a Heavy Metal. I mean these people must be compleatly effing stupid to be doing this. HM's are best with 3 LL+gauss+2 SRM4. Allows the mech to snipe AND brawl with the best of them. You also can do it with a STD 275 Eng and get some decent speed for a 90tonner.




DPS for both sniping and brawling need to be the SAME, not one higher then the other. We had brawlers with high damage/high DPS (CB) and we had nothing but brawling. Then LRMs got a change and we had the LRM apoc. Then PPCs and LL's got there heat reduced by a few points (2 for ERPPC 1 for the rest) and we have what we see now. Thus the cycle of Life continues, some will live, most will die.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Roland, on 09 July 2013 - 01:21 PM, said:

AntiCitizenJuan, on 09 July 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

we going to have to wait 3 months.

Edited by AntiCitizenJuan, 09 July 2013 - 01:54 PM.

[Thuzel]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 09 July 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

PGI hasnt said anything about this combo, which has been plaguing the game since the Highlander came out.
Think we're going to get some kind of fix for this braindead super-alpha?


Or are we going to have to wait 3 months.

We won't have to wait 3 months.

We'll have to wait 6.

[Homeless Bill]

WarZ, on 09 July 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

Ive spectated you and your play style. This is completely how you play. Now you're cool and all but you are asking for the game to fit your play style at the expense of others play styles. That doesnt seem very fair or balancing.

For the record I play everything well, I'm not a sniper only, brawler only, etc, so i'm not trying to support one or the other.

Though I prefer mobility, I don't desire people to shift their playstyles to be more like mine. I do desire for skill-less play to go away.

Sniping is a perfectly valid skill and playstyle. I think it should be totally viable. I just think a PPC Stalker should have to click twice to put its 4xPPCs on the same component. That said, even mobile brawler builds would be affected the same way by my proposal. If you look at the Scenarios section, you'll see that builds like the Splatcat and 40 Jager won't be getting a free pass.

I simply want every playstyle to take a relatively equal amount of skill. Right now, a coma patient can top the scoreboard in a PPC Stalker. There is no perfect balance, and even if there was, it would make things uninteresting. That said, what we have right now is a complete joke.

Additionally, I think my solution is most advantageous for lights and mediums, because they would effectively have the same pinpoint alpha potential as the craziest assault boat. Sure, they would still do less damage over time, and they wouldn't be able to deal out a huge alpha strike, but removing the ability of assaults to vaporize them in a shot or two it would put them (particularly mediums) on competitive footing.

I hopped back in my 732 the other night to see what effect the jumpjet screen shake removal had on jumpsniping. One round, five kills, three assists, most of the damage, and zero effort. And it's not just a fluke. Unless I do something dumb or they bring an equal amount of cheese, my opponents have little bearing on the fight.

I play LRMs, I play scouts, I play brawlers, I play strikers, and I play snipers. Right now, snipers can instagib scouts, out-brawl brawlers, evaporate strikers, and aren't hostage to the situational factors of LRMs. I agree that brawling needs to be brought in-line with sniping, but I think the proper way to do that is to nerf extreme, pinpoint damage rather than buff everything into an instakill weapon.

Edited by Homeless Bill, 09 July 2013 - 02:25 PM.