51 replies to this topic

[Wintersdark]

Essentially, this is just like back when people where disconnecting to avoid being counted as killed. The reality is that your kdr is reflecting times you were defeated, and your whole ejection notion here is seeking to evade that. You were beaten, take the(meaningless) stat hit you deserve.

[armyof1]

Eh so you want a way to artificially boost your KDR, which means your KDR would effectively be bogus?

[Bhael Fire]

Wintersdark, on 10 July 2013 - 12:46 PM, said:

But what this does is provide a way to rob people of valid kills.

No. Read the proposition carefully; the enemy still gets credit for destroying the mech. Basically, when your mech is critically damaged (and only when you are critically damaged), you may engage the Auto Eject. While this is engaged, if an enemy destroys your mech, you eject (with cinematic and all). They get credit for the kill (since they removed you from battle) and you forfeit your C-Bill reward in exchange to have your K/DR not be affected.

armyof1, on 10 July 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

Eh so you want a way to artificially boost your KDR, which means your KDR would effectively be bogus?

At the cost of not gaining C-Bills for the match. It's a fair price to pay, and a difficult decision to make especially if you were winning the match.

[armyof1]

Bhael Fire, on 10 July 2013 - 01:00 PM, said:

At the cost of not gaining C-Bills for the match. It's a fair price to pay, and a difficult decision to make especially if you were winning the match.

Just no, KDR is a stat that should reflect the times you got a kill vs the amount of times you got killed. Going around worrying about that stat in the first place is silly, W/L should be your major concern. To let you pay with CBills to manipulate that quite meaningless stat, making it totally meaningless is just outright ridiculous, I'm sorry to say.

Edited by armyof1, 10 July 2013 - 01:05 PM.

[Miken]

Let's put this in other way.
What if you survived or was ejected then you taking 100% of cb and xp reward, but if you was killed then only 50% reward?

Edited by Miken, 10 July 2013 - 01:05 PM.

[Bhael Fire]

armyof1, on 10 July 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

To let you pay with CBills to manipulate that quite meaningless stat, making it totally meaningless is just outright ridiculous, I'm sorry to say.

Don't be sorry. I'm pretty sure many people would gladly give up their c-bill reward in order to "erase" a horribly balanced match from their record. Even if they won't admit it openly. K/DR is more important to people than many will admit.

[armyof1]

Bhael Fire, on 10 July 2013 - 01:21 PM, said:

Don't be sorry. I'm pretty sure many people would gladly give up their c-bill reward in order to "erase" a horribly balanced match from their record. Even if they won't admit it openly. K/DR is more important to people than many will admit.

But you see what I'm trying to say though, right? If you're given a way to manipulate a stat, then the stat truly has no value anymore. Sure it sucks having a really bad team that get you killed in 3 minutes, but still everyone can have those matches and the stats should reflect that.

[Dirus Nigh]

No.

While I would love an ejection animation when my mech is destoyed. Only when the mech is destroyed. No bailing out before hand. Besides the only reason to bail out is to save R&R costs or save the life of your pilot. R&R will never come back, and there is no such thing as pilot death for the game. It should never effect game stats.

A kill/death in MWO is destroying a mech period. If you ejected its because your mech was destroyed.

[PropagandaWar]

One note on Sync Droppers another note on Premades: I abhor syncing. Some people don't but I do. PGI lost quite a few players from my Corp alone when they limited grouping to lance sizes. However I make it known if I see tons of Davions on that its not a Sync. Usually you can tell a sync by colors and we have seen that alot. Same house symbols or not they tend to run the same colors. Then you see how they run together and know when that game was synced. Problem is your usually four+ down by that time.

Now on to stomping and someting that should be voiced about Premades. I play with a certain group and we are great together. I mean we kick butt have exciting battles (Mainly because we run 2-3 mediums with a heavy. We found that it lets even the other team have a blast. The fights are brutal and fun win or lose. Do we steam roll yeah sometimes. Do I die alot well yeah, but I kill a lot. Ok to the point I play with other people from my own Corp and we get ROFL'd we suck together there is no cohesion and teamwork is lax. I think this happens to more than one group, so don't think think that rofls are just pugnation or that your a pug and that's why you get rofld. We have smashed plenty of Pre-Mades and the same is true. It just happens especially when the Byatch builds are in force.

While not the same topic I also noticed something. A lot of the matches even though the weight classes are different the tonnages are very simaler. Youll see tons of assaults mixed with lights on one team and heavies galore with a medium on another evening out the tonnage. While good in theory broken spiders and HSR dont help out alot in this case lol. There are still a few matches where you can be outtonned by 200-300 tons but I think they are less than everyone believes.

Edited by PropagandaWar, 10 July 2013 - 01:36 PM.

[Bhael Fire]

armyof1, on 10 July 2013 - 01:27 PM, said:

But you see what I'm trying to say though, right? If you're given a way to manipulate a stat, then the stat truly has no value anymore. Sure it sucks having a really bad team that get you killed in 3 minutes, but still everyone can have those matches and the stats should reflect that.

Yeah...I totally know what you are saying. I guess I just don't understand why it matters if a player forfeits their C-Bill reward to avoid having a stat (that's "useless" anyway) affected.

What if ejecting forfeited ALL of the player's rewards for the match, XP included? It'd be as if the match didn't even happen. Surely, nobody could protest that? I mean, if a player constantly used auto eject they'd never get xp or advance at all. Pretty much, the joke would be on them for trying to abuse it.

Basically, there HAS to be a way to compensate for obscenely unbalanced matches where one team is dead before the match even begins — Because that's a bigger issue than worrying about somebody expunging a wrongful death from their K/DR.

Edited by Bhael Fire, 10 July 2013 - 02:53 PM.

[armyof1]

Bhael Fire, on 10 July 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

Yeah...I totally know what you are saying. I guess I just don't understand why it matters if a player forfeits their C-Bill reward to avoid having a stat (that's "useless" anyway) affected.

What if ejecting forfeited ALL of the player's rewards for the match, XP included? It'd be as if the match didn't even happen. Surely, nobody could protest that? I mean, if a player constantly used auto eject they'd never get xp or advance at all. Pretty much, the joke would be on them for trying to abuse it.

Basically, there HAS to be a way to compensate for obscenely unbalanced matches where one team is dead before the match even begins — Because that's a bigger issue than worrying about somebody expunging a wrongful death from their K/DR.

Where our opinions differ is pretty much that I think there is no wrongful death, as little as there are wrongful kills when you end up in a clearly better team and you roll over the opponents within a few minutes. If you are happy to cash in on those kills to buff your stats, you should be equally accepting of getting killed when you end up in the worse team. Manipulated stats are pointless stats, whether you pay to do it that way or not.

[Bhael Fire]

armyof1, on 10 July 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

Manipulated stats are pointless stats, whether you pay to do it that way or not.

That is essentially what happens every time two 4-man premades sync drop and face stomp a PUG; they are manipulating their stats.

[armyof1]

Bhael Fire, on 10 July 2013 - 04:35 PM, said:

That is essentially what happens every time two 4-man premades sync drop and face stomp a PUG; they are manipulating their stats.

It's some lame stuff indeed when it happens, so you want to be as silly as them by manipulating your stats too in another way? I really have nothing more to say about the subject, all kinds of attempts to game the system to make your stats pretty I just find really meh.

[Bhael Fire]

armyof1, on 10 July 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:

all kinds of attempts to game the system to make your stats pretty I just find really meh.

Well, as already established, stats are pretty much pointless anyway and really only mean something to the individual player. Nobody else cares what your stats are.

That's why I don't have a problem with giving players an option to forfeit match rewards in exchange for voiding out an unfair match. It doesn't affect anybody any more than sporting a fancy vanity item like an expensive camo pattern. I don't consider it "gaming" the system in the least, since you are not exploiting the game to gain an advantage over other players.

I say if somebody wants to forfeit their match rewards in exchange for an expunged death, then they should be able to do that. It doesn't hurt anybody.

And on that note, I get the strong feeling by the poll results I'm the only one that feels that way. Well...at least I stated my case the best I could.

[Benjamin Davion]

I don't care all that much about my K/D, I DO care about my Cbills. I would like to see an eject animation/option of some sort, purely for the canon-factor. Ejection is an important part of Battletech lore. It's saved many a character's life. Or not, in the one case that first came to mind. Following becoming the 'Black Paladin', the 'Betrayer of Liao' Daniel Peterson/Ezekiel Crow/Ritter Michaelson fought alongside Republic forces against the Capellan Confederation on Liao. When his Tundra Wolf was critically damaged, he repeatedly considered ejection... and didn't. He burned with his mech, tired of hiding from his past and, in part, to atone for his sins by dying. It was a suicide of sorts, but an honorable one. He chose to end a dishonorable life with one last act of honor: Dying on the field. That's the kind of depth ejection gets in the lore. I would love to see it here.

[Corvus Antaka]

I like the idea. it is silly that you cannot retreat when faced with an unwinnable situation, and saving KDR at the cost of cbills makes for a unique counter/balance system plus a choice for the pilot whether or not to try and win the fight or take down some mechs, or eject to save his KDR.

so long as the system paid 0 cbills on a straight spawn/instant eject so it oculdnt be abused i think it'd make a sharp addition, plus it would end matches quicker when 1 mech is left, no more of this hiding waiting for 7 assaults to lumber onto your base, etc etc. and give ejection a useful purpose in the game.

as for "robbing pilots of valid kills" there is no reason this system could not still grant the kill the the last mech / pilot to shoot the ejecting mech or a random pilot if no one shot him.

[Wintersdark]

Bhael Fire, on 10 July 2013 - 01:00 PM, said:

No. Read the proposition carefully; the enemy still gets credit for destroying the mech. Basically, when your mech is critically damaged (and only when you are critically damaged), you may engage the Auto Eject. While this is engaged, if an enemy destroys your mech, you eject (with cinematic and all). They get credit for the kill (since they removed you from battle) and you forfeit your C-Bill reward in exchange to have your K/DR not be affected.



At the cost of not gaining C-Bills for the match. It's a fair price to pay, and a difficult decision to make especially if you were winning the match.

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 10 July 2013 - 08:18 PM, said:

I like the idea. it is silly that you cannot retreat when faced with an unwinnable situation, and saving KDR at the cost of cbills makes for a unique counter/balance system plus a choice for the pilot whether or not to try and win the fight or take down some mechs, or eject to save his KDR.

so long as the system paid 0 cbills on a straight spawn/instant eject so it oculdnt be abused i think it'd make a sharp addition, plus it would end matches quicker when 1 mech is left, no more of this hiding waiting for 7 assaults to lumber onto your base, etc etc. and give ejection a useful purpose in the game.

as for "robbing pilots of valid kills" there is no reason this system could not still grant the kill the the last mech / pilot to shoot the ejecting mech or a random pilot if no one shot him.

You'd still create a situation where

A: KDR is more meaningless than it already is. Not to get into a debate about KDR - that belongs elsewhere - but this is essentially pay-to-increase-your-score. That's just stupid. It's not a hard decision if your a stat-*****.

B: Popping out screws your teammates.

...Because, critically damaged is meaningless, and extremely difficult to quantify. I've been critically damaged at the start of a match due to a pair of whole-lots-of-ppc hits right off the start, and gone on to do very well in the match regardless. You can still contribute, as long as you've got a mech you can control.

Hell, a centurion is "critically damaged" when his shield arm takes some structural damage.

If you can choose to eject whenever you want, or even if only when your mech is "critically damaged", you'll see match quality drop as a result because people will start ejecting early whenever they start taking damage and their team looks (to them) bad, or they think there's too many cheese builds on the opposing team, or whatever else. In short, if you allow people to choose to drop out mid match, people will, and everyone left will get screwed.

---

Now, lets say this was limited to ONLY when your mech was actually destroyed - you eject rather than not. As I said above, I've nothing against visual ejection, and in fact I think it's a great idea. No game mechanics, simply a visual enhancement alongside the crumple.

But if the idea in the op where to be implemented, you may as well just add a c-bill based stat editor, because that's all this is. It would take an interesting if of questionable value stat and make it utterly meaningless. If we had a lot of better stats, I'd care less, but we don't.

[Timuroslav]

I don't see how you're going to help your team when multiple armor point are shaved off, you lost a weapon.
-Your team is Dead but continues to Back-seat-drive you
-Your Team failed you it's 10-3
-And you're facing stuff bigger than you
-Crucial control points are being defended

You consider it an honor to fight out the battle
Is it Honorable to screw your team by dying early?
Is it fair you should get ranted at for being the last alive? -I've seen this a lot

People are going to Grief by Running out of bounds ANYWAY Even If the automated ejection and/or Manual ejection system is activated by Critical Damage

Read the Dang Post before posting Sheesh

Edited by Timuroslav, 11 July 2013 - 07:39 AM.

[Bhael Fire]

Wintersdark, on 11 July 2013 - 01:55 AM, said:

Now, lets say this was limited to ONLY when your mech was actually destroyed - you eject rather than not.

Yes. That's what I've been saying this entire time. You would not be able to eject whenever you want. You would only be able to arm the Auto Eject system when you were critically damaged. You wouldn't actually eject until the mech is destroyed. At which point, you forfeit your match reward to escape death. Until then, you must fight to best of your ability.

Wintersdark, on 11 July 2013 - 01:55 AM, said:

But if the idea in the op where to be implemented, you may as well just add a c-bill based stat editor, because that's all this is.

That's basically as silly as saying Hero mechs are like "C-Bill editors" because they increase your c-bills by 30% after every match.The fact is, KDR can't get any more meaningless than it already is; Only the player sees it. It doesn't affect the game at all.

[Timuroslav]

Poll needs another option

"Would like to see an after "Mech death" Ejection system implemented"

"Would you prefer a manual Ejection system?"

"Did you read the First post before voting?"

Currently, my Favorite Argument in this thread is "There Should be no Ejection System in the Game because KDR doesn't MATTER! And Because KDR doesn't Matter It shouldn't affect My KDR!" <-Warning! Hypocrisy Alert

lol what? pick one

I just want ejection, as a Manual or Automated option, I don't see why putting it in the game is a bad thing.

I also think the Original Poster is Making a very Specific Argument for a Specific KIND of Ejection implementation. An idea very few posters read or understood.

Edited by Timuroslav, 11 July 2013 - 08:21 AM.